SP3.4 Enlightenment is Expensive
Struggle Party episodes are a change for Alison and Anne to share what they’re reading, watching, or listening to. They each share one struggle and how they used tools to get through it.
Topics:
Charlotte Kasl's books
Resonance Summit with Sarah Peyton
Travel gets harder with age
Getting comfortable with free time
Dating/relationships and trauma
Therapy
Show Notes:
If the Buddha Got Stuck by Charlotte Kasl (book)
Women, Sex, and Addiction by Charlotte Kasl (book)
The Three-Body Problem on Netflix (just read the book -Anne)
Carey’s episode - Turn Around Family Trauma
Transcript:
Keywords
struggle, snuggle, talked, trauma, hard, people, feel, payton, love, skiing, listening, therapist, travel, book, healing, german, texted, dating, critics
Alison Cebulla 0:00
I'm always surprised but then not surprised at how much grief comes up for me when I'm getting to know someone new around the last relationship that I was in because the part that's like so good about a relationship that it was good enough to turn into a relationship is that the beginning when you're getting getting to know each other was so good and so when you're getting to know someone new it's like I already did this already did this with this other guy that I really loved you know, and like Look what happened yeah.
Welcome to latchkey urchins and friends. The podcast that is Healing Trauma with humor. latchkey
Anne Sherry 0:40
kids was a term invented in the 1970s. About kids left home alone at young ages to fend for themselves.
Alison Cebulla 0:46
The downstream impact of a whole generation of unpatented kids is a society in which we struggle to care about each other.
Anne Sherry 0:53
I'm one of your hosts and Cherie a therapist. I'm an urchin because emotional and physical self care are just not instinctual. I'm
Alison Cebulla 1:00
your other host Alison Cebulla, a trauma science educator. I'm an urgent because I have a prickly exterior that keeps people at a distance Join
Anne Sherry 1:07
us as we muddle through the healing journey in search of connection compassion and acceptance interviewing experts and people with lived experience each episode.
Alison Cebulla 1:28
Hey, Aon
Anne Sherry 1:30
Hey, how do you swear are you right now? I'm trying to say how to say hi, in whatever language you're I don't know. I don't I'm in I'm in
Alison Cebulla 1:39
a German speaking country. And I don't know any German at all. And I'm always just like, I can't fake it here. Che
Anne Sherry 1:45
scoff? What is that? That's shithead. That was like this. We had German swimmers come over when I was like, 12 or something. I was on the swim team and we had to exchange German students. Okay. Yes. And they taught us some cuss words. So that's the one I remember. They also used to get undressed. They used to this was a huge thing. Okay, I talked about this before the German exchange people that came swimming, oh, they don't bother, like going to the changing room to get undressed to put their clothes on after someone practice. They just whip it all out and just change right? their bathing suits off. Put your clothes on. boobs and I mean, this is 1980 Okay in Spartanburg, South Carolina, huge scandal, huge scandal. Okay. So, I mean, didn't someone just tell us in the swimming communities? Well, yeah, it was kind of like, oh, Pearl clutching and you know. And then they exchanged the boys who happened to have girl swimmer staying with them. They would lay out in the sun. topless. Yeah. So more Pearl clutching but the boys were not too upset about that. Getting to see
Alison Cebulla 2:56
boobie
Anne Sherry 2:58
when you're 12 or 10 or eight. So anyways, go Germany. Not Ashamed of the body as much. Right,
Alison Cebulla 3:06
right. Right, right. Yeah, it is. That's another thing. I am currently in Innsbruck, Austria, and it does remind me of Asheville. A little outdoorsy mountain town.
Anne Sherry 3:21
So this is snuggle struggle party. But
Alison Cebulla 3:22
first we're going to talk about what we're watching. Okay, or listening to or reading, then we're going to share a struggle or a snuggle, or both. And then that's yeah, that's it and the end. So we didn't do we didn't put out an interview last week. I've been actually kind of sick. Which has been a huge bummer I got to Europe three weeks ago. I got food poisoning right away. Moldy cashews. Yep. And then I donate
Anne Sherry 3:53
food in the dark. Had you not see that? I don't know. Is it on a salad or something? Okay, whatever don't matter. Anyways, it happened and so
Alison Cebulla 4:01
I'm just dissociation again. Here we are again.
Anne Sherry 4:09
Why are these cashews green? Yeah, usually Yeah. And yeah.
Alison Cebulla 4:12
And then I got this monster cold that I'm still battling. So it's been a it's been a time. But
Anne Sherry 4:19
yeah, travel. Travel. Takes a toll if it dies anyways, that is that is the tiny bit of struggle in my snuggle party. So anyway, okay.
Alison Cebulla 4:30
Yeah. So what are you reading or watching or listening to right now that you recommend to our listeners? Okay,
Anne Sherry 4:37
I'm going on and on the spiritual stuff. Okay. I'm like I've I think I've said before that I have started my meditation practice after like really been able to stick to it like getting up at 530 in the morning and really look forward to it, but I kind of had like, now like light cements. Then light some candles sort of just I did a little bit of a guided thing. And then I was like what I was just sort of asking the universe like what's in store? And I'm following this law. That's not as important as the coming to this awareness of. It's like the Christian mystics. Okay, sort of stuff this non dual. So there's a woman Cynthia, I can't pronounce her last name, Burj. I don't have the book with me, but it's the heart of centering prayer. Okay. Yeah, maybe you can look it up in the pronunciation. But it is very cool. It is really working. For me, it is kind of like sitting there part of it as you don't I mean, it's this type of centering prayer is like, taught so but really just coming up with a word. You're just really open. You're just open for Spirit, what however you define that to, for you to be present with that. And it's 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening. It's the thing I like is not gimmicky. There's a lot of good, I can get all down with the gimmicky stuff. And whatever, do whatever works for you. I'm also seeing this kind of like, this is what's working for me and embracing the issue this one word, we are raising the Wu which I tried, I tried to run away from all that. It's real. I know, who knows what season four will bring anyways, we'll probably go back and forth. It's sort of like a seesaw. Who knows. Anyways, heart of centering prayer has been really helpful. So I would just say meditation, I finally have said, just being able to sit and witness for some portion of the day and get a little bit of space between whatever narratives that you're living out that are based in all the things that we talked about this podcast, which I think a report to understand, but at some point, creating space to sit and witness and tons of guests have talked about that. So that's been that the other one book that I'm reading, if the Buddha got stuck, it's like an old buck. Oh, it's that Charlotte? Kasam. Early? Charlotte Yes, yeah, she's
Alison Cebulla 7:16
the best.
Anne Sherry 7:18
I fucking love that book. I was in Boulder, our spring break. And I was Yeah, I was in Trident bookstore. And I was playing with this, like, I don't know, what's my inner voice saying? And there was a bunch of $5 books. And I was like, my inner voice says that my book is on that table. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna listen to my inner voice and I went right to that book. Yeah, whatever. So it's kind of fun to like, play spirituality just thrown
Alison Cebulla 7:44
up frickin Lotus guys. So everyone
Anne Sherry 7:47
listening right now, no matter where you are on your path, I promise you know, it's an invitation to
Alison Cebulla 7:54
grab that book. It's a member of her wonderful identify bugs she has any of her balls women sex and addiction that has been so grounding and fundamental to my personal relational journey. Yeah, so good.
Anne Sherry 8:11
What I did is she's just saying you know, what, just accept where you are just as sort of radical acceptance. It doesn't mean you're not going to shift or change or whatever, but at least some and from an internal family systems standpoint to me that says it quiets the critics down you're not doing this right. You're not doing enough you're on the wrong path. I'm so familiar with that critic energy that has driven me and I'm grateful to you critics. Yay, y'all don't good. And it's time to slow it down and say You thought you're not doing this wrong. You're not doing this path wrong. You're not doing life wrong. Anyways, that's been helpful and she sort of there's some real practical stuff. She's just super kind, super spacious. She's anyways, so that and then I talked a little bit about this. I'm watching Well, three body problem on Netflix. I don't know. The first four
Alison Cebulla 9:01
of you don't even like it. Why would you recommend it?
Anne Sherry 9:07
If anybody's watched it, don't watch it. The book apparently is outstanding. So maybe I'll go get it go get the boat. I'm kind of pissed out right now. I was like all in I was like, oh my god, this is so good. And then the fifth episode six episode. I'm like, What are y'all doing? This is boring. So anyways, so skip that one. I guess. skip that one. Or if you've already seen it, let me know. Am I missing some? Yeah, so that's that. Um,
Alison Cebulla 9:31
thanks. And I like book I like the whoo stuff. And I love hearing Charlotte Castle come up. Yeah, so for me, I think I want to talk about this online conference that I went to carry who we interviewed in season two.
Anne Sherry 9:56
Yeah, she was
Alison Cebulla 9:57
speaking at this summit. It was called the the rest sentence Sumit the healing power of play and usually when I go to these things it's like too much of stuff I already know and learn that it's just too boring and interesting Do you really mean sometimes like you already got the whoo and yeah this was not like that
Anne Sherry 10:16
well I wouldn't have picked up yeah that the Buddha book because I'm like this is from 2002 or whatever exactly done and then I was like nope just come around again it's all good I was like new new parts or reading it or something
Alison Cebulla 10:30
yeah this yeah this one was put on by a woman named Sarah Payton who I do know through my my late colleague sissy White who passed away a year ago loved Sarah Payton's work and and so I it's it's within my field you know of trauma awareness. And the it was kind of a so it was kind of like a resilience building conference, but it was all about the healing power of play. And we I attended the whole thing it was like four days I didn't know how much I needed it it was so so so good. And everyone was so good. All the speakers I like learned so much I attended this one workshop where they had us take some sort of intense emotion that we were feeling and then pick an object that represents that emotion and then tell a story about the object just tell story about the towel and it worked so well in helping me process that emotion I am I want to retain this practice and use it it was so good and they were like don't worry about your story just tell the story of the object don't worry about yours this isn't about you super cool
Anne Sherry 11:52
was like getting out a little get salty or like let's let's get into dialogue let's get into relationship that's very much internal hate to take everything back to inter but but internal family systems doesn't have the market on everything but somehow to get in relationship with something but you're
Alison Cebulla 12:09
the what they were doing was having a switch the parts of our brain so where you can get stuck in a loop feeling a negative emotion when you tell a story or you're switching on different parts of the brain
Anne Sherry 12:22
nice yeah. All right now I want to say yeah, just like my meditation no but so I think it switches on different stuff to like not to talk about stuff Yeah, just kind of
Alison Cebulla 12:35
don't have to verbally process everything. Yeah, ad nauseam. I love I love. I used to love to I don't anymore. But um, yeah, but the feelings still do come up and they still can hijack us. So being able to switch for sure something to play instead of for keeps or her serious. Game Changer. Yeah. So this conference was was amazing. So y'all need to check out Sara Payton and just follow her and the work she's doing. She.
Anne Sherry 13:04
Okay. Well, is there another? I mean, is that like a yearly conference or just sort of? So
Alison Cebulla 13:11
I have no idea. Okay. Yeah, I just carry with speaking and so she was like, You should come and I did and Kara gave a great talk. We know how great Carrie is how and it was so good. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Anne Sherry 13:23
Yes. Carrie? super playful. Wait. Carrie is our one that tried every single every ceiling Baladi on the planet. She was playing around with. Me just was incredibly playful with healing. Yes, yeah. And I tried this and I did. Yes. Exactly. Of course stuff. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And just Yeah, yeah. Very fun. Okay. Well
Alison Cebulla 13:53
keep telling you. Now. Okay. So what was your struggle, struggle?
Anne Sherry 14:00
My struggles snuggle? Mostly snuggle. Although, I have realized and named to myself that travel is hard. I don't know if it's my age. I don't know if it's my trauma. I don't know if it's whatever. But just a transition. We all travel. I think it's age thing. Like when I came back from the Netherlands when I talked about I was like, I am never leaving my house again. Like, I can't do this or whatever. So anyways, and then. I'm not going on that tangent of like, this is how it happened. You get old you know, like, Oh, I've already been on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I don't need to go up there again. Which is what my mom said.
Alison Cebulla 14:44
I mean, I
Anne Sherry 14:45
was there once. I know. I was like, I'm okay. Fine. So I don't want to do that. But what I did was so we went to Colorado. first spring break, primarily for a skiing vacation because August is like so into it. And to see my brother for a couple he lives in Broomfield and I have declared I'm not skiing my knees don't like it. I hate trying to keep up. I'm not as good of a skier. I'm not nearly the skier they are. And I by making that declaration, this is snugly, like I was like, I'm going to do something different. Of course, I had to kind of, like find my way there. So there was just this little struggle of being tired of what am I going to do with myself all day? Was this a good idea? I could feel that narrative ramping up. And I was like, I know who you are. I know who you are. And I think some of the meditation practice 30 years of therapy have helped me become much more securely attached. So I was like, Oh, hi, there you are. And we just kind of just kind of hung right there. didn't beat myself up. You know, not even too long ago, I was like, Oh, I hurt my knee. And then I just sat around all day, and I was just in. This was over Christmas. And I was like, I know what this is. And so I was able to be friend that and then found my way to the hot tub that's in the condom is Colorado. So the places all have hot tubs steam room, right near the mountain. And I was really able to show up as a caretaker, for Tom and August, who were skiing all day, like able to put myself aside a bit and say we're, you know, like, August is 11. And he is having a ball skiing. I chose to have this kid, you and I can't and I can do this for him. I have my day. And I was able to cook dinner and put wet clothes away. And then we go to the hot tub. And I was like, and Tom really was like, You're a different person. Because usually all that shit would come with like, what about me? And I'm not getting this and I need to get my vacations and but Oh, but there was a real choice finally. And it sounds so I know lots of people are probably people who don't listen to this podcast who like are securely attached. And that's like, not hard for them. And it's not earth shattering to put yourself aside and think of others in a real choice for way, not like a resentful way. And then, I don't know, I was like, go on a walk. You know, like, if that's all you do today, like really was able to bite sigh shit. And I was like, oh, man, we really do have choice can have choice. I mean, sounds kind of boring. Now that I talked about, I think you and I were texting and I was like, travel is not good for me. You know, and I was. And I brought my meditation practice in. But I couldn't do it at the time that I wanted to do it, which was so I have this sort of I was noticing this rigidity, I get up at 530 I meditate. I listened to my groovy music. I pick my animal spirit cards, I write a page and I was like, great. I have my practice. And I had to, I had to make adjustments there. And one of the animal spirit cards I got was something about, I don't know, the scorpion or whatever and like being this fucking rigid, whatever. And I was like, Oh, you're right. I'm having too much rigidity here, you know? And I was like, Okay, I'm like, 12,000 feet in the air. I'm like, 12,000 feet closer to God, get that head chakra open and meditate away. Okay, well, God came in. Hallelujah. And help me just like, just settle just amazing. Don't Don't make shit so fucking hard. Like, you're
Alison Cebulla 18:43
so good lately. Like, you're like, I know. It's weird.
Anne Sherry 18:48
I am enlightened. Probably. Me and Eckhart are gonna, like, hang out he made enlightenment sound like such a special thing? Like, it's not. It's
Alison Cebulla 18:59
not. I mean, not that I know what that's like, but I think it's just, yeah, it's just I think it's just hard work all the time. 30
Anne Sherry 19:07
years, it was expensive, you know? monotherapy Well, yes. A lot of hatred. Okay,
Alison Cebulla 19:15
but yeah, I guess back down to earth. I sort of I don't know. Like I think I used to put like the quote unquote enlightenment on some sort of pedestal that I just don't really believe now. But there is like, I would say like an inner peace.
Anne Sherry 19:30
I'm good. I like kinda like my life and shit right now. I like my work. I don't know. I mean, I hope like, I don't know if something else comes in is like, oh, let's rip the rug out from under you. Yeah, there'll
Alison Cebulla 19:42
be another Yeah, it'll be another moment. Yeah, okay. Anyways, struggle
Anne Sherry 19:45
with a little pinch of no snuggle with a little pinch of struggle. Yeah, that made the snuggle all the more better. And I couldn't take my stuffed animal with me. We didn't have room for it. So I had to leave mama posts at home. Yeah, If she were sad I need a little mama post. I'm gonna go get a baby mama post. I'll be alright if you post. Yeah. Well, you sent me a New York Times article that stuffed animals are good for adults. So go get your stuff
Alison Cebulla 20:14
down for them. You send me that? Yeah. Oh, yeah, maybe? Yeah. Okay. All right. So how about you? Yeah, um, so besides just like, the struggle of feeling like shit every day since I got here, which has just been unfortunate. Everyone's like, where's your blog? I like I don't, I'm like dying. Like, I haven't had my brain available to me. Like, since I got here, like, like, recovering from jetlag. Plus this cold plus food poisoning. liked him. I just like wake up every day and just like try to like stumble through some semblance of a routine. But I have gone I have gone on a couple dates, which is the goal. And so you know, I just want to share that. I've had some like, what the fuck am I doing moments? Like, why did I design this project like this, like, this is really hard. Like putting yours like dating is like one of the hardest things that we do as human beings, like putting yourself out there really getting to know and honestly, like, I'm always surprised, but then not surprised at how much grief comes up for me when I'm getting to know someone new around the last relationship that I was in. Because the part that's like, so good about a relationship that it was good enough to turn into a relationship is that the beginning when you're getting getting to know each other was so good. And so when you're getting to know someone new, it's like, I already did this already did this with this other guy that I really loved. You know, and like, look what happened. Yeah.
Anne Sherry 21:53
Ooh, that's a tough thing to, to, I guess feel or be in, be in relationship with that, that this is part of it. Like this is the discovering. Right? That wanting to decide is this my person or you my person, you know, kind of maybe skipping over? I don't know what I know. I've had two relationships.
Alison Cebulla 22:15
You don't know shit, and I don't know fucking shit.
Anne Sherry 22:19
I feel terrible when I have clients that are like, I'm really struggling with dating. I'm like, I'm gonna have to refer you out because I I'm a dissociated. I dissociated for 15 years, pretty much and then. I don't know, like a champ
Alison Cebulla 22:34
like a champ. Yeah,
Anne Sherry 22:37
could champ. Yeah, yeah. So I've been married for 30 some years, to two people insane. So weird. I know. It's very 1940s
Alison Cebulla 22:47
or so for. So the thing about dating is like, it really can have the potential to bring up, like some of our hardest things and wounds and traumas and parts. So I was feeling a little triggered last week. So I was like, God, bring gotta bring my therapist in. So I texted Melanie, what up? And she was able to accommodate me. And she say, so that's
Anne Sherry 23:17
the wisdom here. Yeah.
Alison Cebulla 23:21
So what she's helping me with right now is like really titrating the traumas, because when it comes to the life of Alison Cebulla, the stuff that's in there is very severe. And so what she's, what we've learned from trial and error is that sometimes I can, I can take too much on in therapy. And so she's constantly like, hey, let's make sure that we slow this way down, and just take what you can take right now. And you don't actually have to feel that whole thing, you know, or go into that whole era of your life or whatever. Let's just do a little, a little bit and let's just monitor how you feel as we go in there. And slow it down, slow it down. And just notice how you feel and how you're relating to the stuff that comes up and the different parts and then pull back a little bit and then go back in a little bit and then pull back is
Anne Sherry 24:21
trauma work that titration is like number one trauma skill or way to do it because yeah, and that's what Elizabeth was saying. Remember when she was pep pep talking or saying you know, asking how slow it down. Slow it down? Yeah. Okay, so
Alison Cebulla 24:42
and even like in the dating itself, I love what you've said about discover, don't decide. I love that. Yeah. Just discovering Yeah, slowly and so the snuggle part I think is trusting myself more Knowing that I have the tools to slow it down, knowing that I have people I can reach out to like you. I remember I texted you for advice last week, my therapist, lovely podcast guests like Elizabeth, you know, it's just like, we don't have to do it alone. And sometimes maybe we don't have the tools that we need. So we do need to ask, you know, and so that's where, like, going to my therapist and being like, actually, I am feeling overwhelmed. What What can I do? You know, and just having having that help there. It makes a huge difference to where it's like, oh, like, okay, I can, I can do this I can do.
Anne Sherry 25:43
That was sort of, you know, for whatever reason in our childhoods, the way parenting was going and whatever, you know, who knows, but like being left alone too often with hard stuff. So the narrative in there is like, it's hard. I'm on my own. Yeah, right. And so just goddamn that practice of just leaning back into I need some help. I'm struggling. I mean, I said that to you. I was like, I don't think travels for me that when I'm making my snap, you know, because whatever. It turned out very snugly Colorado, that I'm like, that was a full day full 24 hours of like, or is it? Do I have this? Am I but
Alison Cebulla 26:22
you did reach out?
Anne Sherry 26:23
I did. I did? I did. Yeah.
Alison Cebulla 26:26
And you I saw you figuring it out in real time. Because we were chatting the whole time. And I was like, Yeah, damn you. Oh, you turn this struggling now?
Anne Sherry 26:35
Like a good self reliant. Yeah, just just hold space for me while I figure it out on my own, but that's, that's okay. A lot of times kids like I want to do it myself. They just need a body double. They just need somebody they're holding space because I don't on a continuum. I tend towards self reliance that was helpful for me to survive. I know you know, a latchkey childhood Yeah. And not being self reliant. I don't think it goes as well when nobody around. So if you really, you know, you really hook in with that, like, I need people and nobody around. I think that's, that's hard. I'm kind of grateful for my partner. We're like, Okay, I got it. Myself. And the path back to being with people is terrifying. Terrifying. Yes. Avoidance.
Alison Cebulla 27:27
So on that note,
Anne Sherry 27:30
okay, we do have some people to interview for season three they're coming, but just a wee little thing.
Alison Cebulla 27:36
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do we have we have some people lined up. We still have some more views. Thanks for being patient is everybody earth
Anne Sherry 27:45
so there's a lot of time zones we're navigating right now. A
Alison Cebulla 27:48
lot of time zones and it's all my fault. Yeah. So it's okay. Yeah, I did this to myself and I'm and I'm I'm really suffering so
Anne Sherry 27:59
everybody right now send Allison a big big energy I'm all I'm all pray for you
Alison Cebulla 28:08
to ask for healing energy send it my way because I would like my brain back in my body Yes. So okay. Yes. Thank you for tuning in with us and sharing you know, struggles and snuggles and commenting on Instagram and Facebook and liking and subscribing and sharing we love and appreciate you we got a
Anne Sherry 28:30
little love family a little community growing Yeah.
Alison Cebulla 28:35
Yeah, yeah. Love you mean it everybody all right.
Unknown Speaker 28:51
What I got to do
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
