S2.E3. Don’t Abandon Your Inner Child
Anne and Alison interview Cynthia Perez, LCSW, a Chicana therapist, author, public speaker, and Inner Child Hype Woman. We learn how she came to do this work of hyping up our inner child, how to do the work, and why acknowledging our inner child is so important (the pain is not too great! We can do it!). We discuss social justice-informed therapy and healing, the work of feeling self and historical pain, and Cynthia’s Chicana identity.
Cynthia Perez, is a Chicana therapist and Self Proclaimed "Inner Child Hype Woman". Upon entering motherhood she realized she had a lot of Re-Parenting of herself to do. Cynthia created Rooted in Reflection, a mental health meets social justice space. Cynthia enjoys curating inner child workshops that are creative and joyful! Cynthia is a 1st generation latchkey kid to immigrant parents and a storyteller for the family.
Cynthia’s birthday coincides with this episode's release. Her birthday is 10/26. Happy Birthday, Cynthia!!
Cynthia has an Inner Child workshop that starts 11/07/22 and the early bird savings of $75 off ends 10/26/22. Sign up here.
Transcript:
Alison Cebulla 0:06
Welcome to the latchkey urchins and friends Podcast. I'm Alison Cebulla.
Anne Sherry 0:10
And I'm Anne Sherry we are healing trauma with humor, humility, authenticity, imperfection, messiness, and compassion.
Alison Cebulla 0:18
Each week we interview someone on a different childhood trauma and neglect topic. Our hope is to reduce the stigma of talking about mental health and offer some tools to heal
Anne Sherry 0:28
latchkey urchins are children who came home to an empty house after school each day and watch themselves. We are the children who fought viciously with our siblings. We set toasters on fire making cinnamon toast, and aimlessly roam the neighborhood hoping for something to do
Alison Cebulla 0:43
Urchins adapted to not need anyone. Our spiny prickly parts keep people at a distance.
Anne Sherry 0:49
Sometimes we were the kids, other kids parents warned you about
Alison Cebulla 0:53
sometimes we were the kids who held it all together, saved our families and got perfect grades in school.
Anne Sherry 1:00
Sometimes we were the teens who found comfort in drugs and alcohol.
Alison Cebulla 1:03
Now we are the adults who realize that our nurturance needs were not fully met. And we're healing that inner kid and breaking generational trauma.
Anne Sherry 1:11
So whether you're a latchkey, an urgent or a friend, you are
Alison Cebulla 1:15
wanted here Hi, how are you? So great to see you that you know that how are you question? Like the fact that they how I reflexively like It's like our greeting is so weird to me.
Anne Sherry 1:43
Yeah. Did I say it? I don't even know that. Did I say how are you? Or did you say how are you?
Alison Cebulla 1:47
You said I said it? Yeah. I it's reflexive even
Anne Sherry 1:52
know it is reflexive. I didn't even know I said it. So today,
Alison Cebulla 1:55
we are talking to we we are sharing our conversation with Cynthia Perez, who is a licensed social worker and inner child hype woman. We found her on Instagram love her Instagram, which is rooted in reflection. So good. So yeah, I love her joy, her kind of like effervescent joy. It's almost like she can't help but just be authentically herself. And totally, it really actually I left feeling like I think I just got free therapy.
Anne Sherry 2:30
Yeah, yeah. Yes. Because I have such cynic party even though I'm a therapist, and I encourage this and I know it's inner child work and but I'll go to these places of like where I'm like, maybe it's not maybe we can like ah, they're so slow. This is so awful. I feel terrible. And she's like, No, come on. We just got to do it. This is it. We're doing it. Come on, we're gonna do it you know, and like in just such a real encouraging authentic reminder way that Yes. All this stuff happened in our childhoods and it set us up for the way we are in in the world are so anyways, I know, I know, it's that but I can go to some really dark negative places around stuff like I was neglected. So I'm broken. It's never going to work. But to have that ability to have when I say never gonna work just like I'm not gonna lie feels hard. A lot. But she's like, just just be with that sweet one right there. Just find that one. Just have a sit with her. And yeah, you know, like, it just, she reminds me Oh, yeah. It's actually a lot simpler, even though there's a lot of pain around it. But it's just just keep showing up all day, every day, as much as you can and then do it again. Even if you fail. Come back.
Alison Cebulla 3:50
Yeah, I feel so she is she identifies as Chicana person which means someone of Mexican American heritage. And I remember reading, I think it was in one of those John Gottman books. I think it was like a relationship advice book. I've read them all. It's not none of its thinking in where they talked about observing. Someone did a study where they were observing couples from different countries on a date, and how many times the couples touched each other. Yeah. And I think Mexico had the highest number, you know, like the couples touched each other like 200 times, and the US couples touch each other 0200
Anne Sherry 4:30
Holy cow. And should we just stay stay on our side of the table? Right? Oh, yeah.
Alison Cebulla 4:40
It makes me sad. Obviously consensual. Obviously, we that we have some issues where we want to be safe and consensual. But I feel that often in our culture, especially like Europe, Northern European cultures were so cold to each other and we don't do that nurturing consensual light touch. I remember Seeing this movie. I don't know if you saw it's an independent film, but it had a lot of stars in it. It was certain women. Kristen Stewart was in it. And that other woman from Dawson's Creek who's just great Michelle, whoa, who I marched next to at that DC women's march in 2017. I marched. Wow. And kid, okay, it so it's a great certain women. It's about it's about all these different families in Montana, watch this. It's so good. But okay, so my, my, both my parents are from Montana, watching the film. At the end, I was like, no one touched anyone else the entire movie. Like I noticed it. And it was like, wow. And I really feel that that's how my family is too. Like, I really feel that like the Mon Tia way, like, don't touch. Yeah. And it made me I brought up a lot of grief for me to actually see this.
Anne Sherry 5:49
Yes, I can remember being given the feedback. I didn't know that I wasn't a toucher, I guess. But my freshman year in college or, anyway, the freshman or sophomore year, I had befriended my roommates and this other group of friends and I just spontaneously, like, at one point, we're just walking down the street and sort of just, I don't not, like jumped on their back. But like, like, leaned in for a back hug. Or I don't know what it was, but just like, hey, you know, something like that? And they were like, We have no, it was significant to all of them. They're like you have never hugged or touched. I mean, I was like, What did I'm not like, I didn't know that. I didn't touch people that I have
Alison Cebulla 6:37
that in common. And we have that argument. I school, I had the same thing. My friends were like, you don't know how to hide at work. We are going to teach you how to do this thing. And they had to teach me how to hug. I didn't get it until college. Yeah. So I was Emily, it was Emily that who we interviewed on our sex education. So
Anne Sherry 6:53
she had me I know. Yeah, yeah, I had to learn by shame. But I mean, it was just like, I mean, because so I was like, Ah, I don't know how to. I guess I wasn't touched much or hugged or caressed.
Alison Cebulla 7:12
A lot of times when serving like different countries and like happiness levels, that Mexico rates really high, because they have some these like warm, interconnected this culture that's like based more on relations and yeah, being relational, and affectionate and nurture. Yeah, it's like baked into, of course, I don't want to generalize for everybody. But it's, it tends to be a trend culturally.
Anne Sherry 7:39
Yeah. Yeah. We know, it's important. I mean, I can tell you doing inner child work from the internal family systems perspective, where you really are providing us a self to go back and be with a child part that's likely stuck in time. Almost every time they want to the they want to be held. So you sort of imagine yourself, I mean, just this re parenting is usually around, they want to get close to me. They want to sit my lap, they want their hair stroked, or you know, there's that is, that is the reparative moments. Yeah, and it usually involves an August my kiddo. I mean, he's still I'm like, oh, it's gonna go away at some point, you know, but he doesn't want like active hugs and stuff. But he still comes in he is so snuggly to, like if we're watching a movie or something he is it's he's not in his own spirit. He is like snuggled up to meet or Tom, which is so cool that you see, Dad? Yeah, yeah, he would. He will gravitate and an i law. I don't.
Alison Cebulla 8:44
Well, I have past age. I don't remember snuggling period, the neurosequential model where Bruce Perry talks about like, you have to meet the primitive. We talked about this with Cynthia you have to meet those primitive needs. Before you can meet like the prefrontal cortex like Rational needs. I often think about that for adults because what Bruce Perry's research shows is like even if you're 12 or 18 or 55 You're if if you were traumatized while you were an infant or toddler you have to get that soothing that rocking that skin to skin contact that wouldn't need it
Anne Sherry 9:24
Oh, you just made me connect Yeah, I think yeah, just when I'm in my most prickly if I really get honest I'm like I haven't what I really want is a hug or I probably haven't done I haven't done anything nourishing I've stopped going to a massage therapist or I stopped going to whatever wacky bodywork crap that I do or or some aura or yoga class that has this like the you know being nourished by I don't know like just the sound of it the soothing Enos the you may not get, actually yeah, when those are leaving my life I get really brittle and Haiti.
Alison Cebulla 10:03
But we're excited for you to hear this amazing interview with Cynthia. So here it is
all right, we are so excited to be here with Cynthia prize. She's a licensed clinical social worker, she's you're based in LA. Yeah, I'm in Long Beach, California Long Beach. Cool. Cynthia is a Chicano therapist and writer. She is an inner child, hyper woman, which is why we brought her on today, we want to we want to talk all about what the heck an inner child is why we want to heal that. Why are you always trying to get rid
Anne Sherry 10:47
of them? Or suppress them or
Alison Cebulla 10:51
exile them. And she holds social justice centered mental health workshops, and is humanity and compassion centered. Now, we found Cynthia from her amazing, amazing, like, really like joyful, like you bring a lot of joy, but but not in a toxic, positive way, like, like an authentic way to your Instagram account, which is rooted in reflection, and we will link to that in the show notes. We love your Instagram. So Cynthia, thank you so much for joining us today.
Cynthia Perez 11:21
Yes, thank you for saying that, Alison. That was actually the hope I was. I was like when I do this Instagram, what what's going to be different than anybody else. And I was like, I have to embody like joy because in this pandemic, I couldn't take one more scary thing. I felt really frozen. So the fact that you you I feels like you, you too are picking up what I'm putting down. That just really keeps me Thank you.
Anne Sherry 11:44
Yes, yes. I never I never, like swipe away and be like, Oh, another person trying to make me feel good. I'm like, Oh, thank you. Actually, it's there's some authenticity to it that just I keep looking and keep going and like, I can't do this. I do have it. So some that encouragement in there. But you're also not. I don't know, there's no Pollyanna and it either. So it's just authentic. And
Alison Cebulla 12:09
it's so good. Everyone. If you're listening, you gotta go follow Cynthia, again. We'll link to him. So
Anne Sherry 12:14
right now listen, interview. Oh, don't get
Cynthia Perez 12:20
me the judge. Let's see how this goes.
Alison Cebulla 12:25
So Okay, Cynthia, so, our, you know, our question of the hour is always like, were you a latchkey kid, meaning were you kind of left alone a lot at home, or were you an urchin meaning there was some emotional neglect? And, you know, what was the emotional environment of your childhood?
Cynthia Perez 12:42
Yeah, you know, I was looking at the questions over and I kind of let it just sit in my awareness. Because I was like, I don't know it was I and then this whole week, just a flooding, of like little moments of like, I'm a latchkey kid, I'm an I'm an urgent but I wasn't naming them. It was just my childhood. So I would say I was both in a very great way. In a survival way. My My parents were both immigrants they both had, but they are fortunate to have gotten really great jobs because they had residency, which is another part of my family legacy of, of how we had regular residency. So they had really good jobs like with the state and with the school. District. Nice. That's great. Yeah, so I was but I was home alone to like 435 Every day I but I would walk to school with my cousins. I love though. I remember I remember having to take myself to school every morning when I was like 10. But I'd be like late playing Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega, you know, but my mom would call me and she would remind me so I was a latchkey kid, but I also wasn't urgent. I feel like I really wouldn't have called it that. But I emotions. The emotional part was probably harder for me, because my parents didn't speak English as their first language. Okay, they weren't going to talk back to the teachers. They weren't going to like ask for things they weren't going to, like, put themselves on. And it was really hard. Or like, I realized when and all my memories, I'm like, How did I graduate? I was always like, in these like, special reading classes. Like speech, I had a list till I was in fifth grade. Nobody, like assessed to me. So the emotional part I didn't even realize wasn't there until I became a therapist. And I was like, I didn't get that either. So yeah, it sounds
Alison Cebulla 14:20
like there, there was emotional neglect. But then there was also some other neglect, because like not being able, so some because we've we actually had a whole episode on kind of immigrant specific issues, but in season one, so because of the language barrier, your parents were not able to advocate for your needs. So that's a different that's I just want to highlight that because that other layer, yeah, it's another layer. Yeah.
Cynthia Perez 14:45
But because I was born here as an American, even though now that I look at it. I was literally born here a year after my parents came here. So imagine they're, you know, my sister was three when I was born, so they have a toddler and then Me, but because I was born here because I have white skin because I have green eyes. And because we had a nice house that I can remember compared to my, like, with my friends I always thought like, but that wasn't my life. I was just dumb when I didn't realize it's because, yes, you are an American, but you're being raised, you know, by by people who don't know this system. So I always thought it was just me, I should know more. I should be able to do my homework by myself and my parents couldn't help me. So I didn't realize how much I expected to just do myself. Because that's what you do even college now. I'm like, How the hell did I do that? You know? So,
Alison Cebulla 15:37
wow. Wow. Okay, thank you for sharing that with us. So when you were home alone, and you walked home alone from school, what did you make for food? What were your
Cynthia Perez 15:49
you know, top ramen was my latchkey food. My friends would come over and we would make ramen and my cousins call it daddy soup. I don't call it that. But now I do. Because their daddy made it the best. So every day, we'd be like, let's go home and make daddy soup because we were like 11 By this time. Yeah. So we always made daddy soup. But you know, it always had lemon, cheese, ham and even webull. Like all your protein. And so I never knew that. That was how our family I thought that's just how you make daddy. So yes, but by that time, like in high school, my friends they always I didn't even know this. They were like, I have these great memories of you inviting us over to have ramen and we love your ramen. And I was like, I was inviting them to my my culture of being home alone my tradition within myself and they would they said that that was like their best high school memories. And I was like something that I did. I did. Community. Yeah. Ramen.
Alison Cebulla 16:41
Ramen. Okay, that's a classic. Yeah, that was a big one for me too. But we you know, like the all the jokes about white people don't know how to add flavor to their food. Like we're the worst. We didn't know. What was yours. We didn't add yet. No, we don't need red
Anne Sherry 16:57
balls is what I like this weird. Get a loaf of bread. Take the chorus off and roll it into a bowl.
Alison Cebulla 17:06
Yeah, I'm embarrassed for an Yeah, no.
Anne Sherry 17:09
about that big. I probably that's probably why my brother has gluten intolerance. Like he's got celiac diagnosis for you like, like tire loaf of fucking bread. Yes. No crust, but you could get down to about that. Yeah. So that was that. And I love this. Yeah, yeah,
Cynthia Perez 17:27
we would. So it's cinnamon toast. We would same as you look, I would get a tortilla, get some panties and roll it up or put butter on a tortilla with salt and that's it. Or we would make Goodwill's which are fried tortillas with cinnamon and sugar. So look similar. Yeah, beautiful.
Alison Cebulla 17:48
Yeah, that's so our logo. Our logo is a toaster on fire. Because you know if you're humble. Yeah, that butter dripping on Salem bakes would happen.
Anne Sherry 17:59
Nobody's coming. There was no fire alarms or anything like nobody
Cynthia Perez 18:02
was to put the butter on the toast and then in the toaster. Yeah,
Anne Sherry 18:06
like we didn't have the toasters that can you do that? Oh, well. Yeah, this way.
Cynthia Perez 18:12
Oh, I was a match.
Anne Sherry 18:13
I was like, no, no, no, a grease fire. But I mean, it was like white, you know, white bread or enrich bread or whatever. And it was so thin by the time you had packed it with like you. You like put a bunch of butter on it and ripped it in the butter is just like, dripping on the element. Like, I love it. There were no fine. Can
Cynthia Perez 18:32
I ask a question? Can I ask you a question as a child of immigrants to you guys? Is this because I've realized I have a lot of really close white friends that would tell me stuff that I'm like, Oh, I didn't know that was different. I didn't know that. Yeah, different. Totally fine. They weren't rude about it. But like some things to this day. I'm like, is that a my family thing? So this we would go to the beach? You would get like a whole bag of wheat bread. Take all the bread out make your sandwiches and then you would repack the bag with the sandwiches? You did not. Yeah. And they know my bag and take it to the beach.
Anne Sherry 19:03
Yeah, well, that for trips like road trips or whatever, because I know you don't like an accordion. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a and I'm being old probably born in 68. My parents were 38 but there was always you there was no stopping at a at a fast food restaurant or whatever. So I you know, like they kept packing all that that kind of thing. It was a country thing. Kind of a southern? I don't know sounds kind of I always thought it was a poor thing.
Alison Cebulla 19:33
But yeah, and you have talked about going to the beach and not having what you needed.
Anne Sherry 19:37
Oh God, no, we just had one shitty white towel that we'd sit on and I was like, I hate the beach. I fucking hate the beach because we're like getting all sunburned. There was nothing you know, like, you know, they didn't know how to go to the beach. They grew up on like clay dirt farms or whatever. So the beach was a weird thing to them and they didn't know how to do it. So
Cynthia Perez 19:57
yeah, I love that what a difference the beach makes when you do it like the way you really want to withhold
Anne Sherry 20:02
effort I learned to do I went to a lot of therapy to like, oh, the adults put some effort in to make it a good experience for the kids. I was like, Shit, I'm the adult I kept being like, who's gonna make the beach fun? And I was like, me do some therapy on that. And I did I do. It's better way better tent cooler.
Alison Cebulla 20:24
Yeah, let's talk about the inner child work. This is such a segue. So yeah. So you know, we love your Instagram, and you do such a good job of talking about inner child work. And, you know, you say you're an inner child type woman. So I think actually, you know, a lot of our listeners actually won't know what the heck does that mean? What is inner child work? And so someone who really doesn't know they may have an inclination, but help us understand.
Cynthia Perez 20:51
Okay, do you mind if I share a little bit about how I got into energy work? Please do okay? To explain it. Yeah. So I've been a therapist for 12 years, I even feel weird saying I'm a therapist, to be honest, because I've been a social worker historically, for most of my career, hence, the vicarious trauma. And so, in the last five years, I had children back to back Mexican twins one year apart, and that rocked my world, as a human, as a woman and as a professional. So I in 2016, and then 2017, I had kids back to back, and I was working at Kaiser Permanente, which is one of the number one, health care places in California, and I say number one in air quotes. And, and I had postpartum depression really bad with my first child, and they didn't care. They did not care if anything, I felt a lot of pressure to go back to work. And I literally felt like my body couldn't even do the work because I was so not available. And so I took some, some parenting courses. And it was non violent parenting by a Latino based organization. And I was like, I don't know why I'm taking this because I don't have a violent childhood. So Right. And it was in that course. And I'm embarrassed. I'm a therapist taking this course. Because I'm like, raging on my kids, or I'm crying or I'm just not stable. I'm not doing well, y'all. Yeah, so here I am humbled enough to go to this class for six weeks. And because I think it was really based in my own culture, I found myself really avoidant, like, oh, no, I didn't live in a violent home. I just needed to be spanked because I didn't understand things. And so the the therapist that led the group, she was wonderful. She was like, Cynthia, you didn't deserve that. I was like, but I did. Like, I did. Like, come on we and then so it was six weeks of these questions of these guided meditations, learning about ACEs. And I realized in learning about ACEs that I was working for the company that did the study on ACEs, Kaiser, yes, yes. So why was I, a social worker, never taught about ACEs. In my own profession. It is wild, it is wild started to really feel like I was in this new matrix of okay, well, I guess we're gonna figure it out. Right? So it was in this inner child stuff that I would be in grief. Why didn't my parents care enough? Enough, like, like, ansaid to make the beach fun? Here you are at the beach? Why? Like, why wasn't I special enough? Important enough to my, for my parents to come to a class like this? Why didn't I matter enough? Like, like my kids matter to me. So it was in that that I learned about inner child work and inner child work is the the content well, the act of contacting your inner child in your subconscious, so your inner child is always within you, I like to say that my inner child is sitting like at the helm, at my heart in my heart space, watching everything like she's leading this boat. She's at the front of my heart center. Now, obviously, I can't see her. She's in my subconscious. And so when I feel triggered when something makes me feel unsafe, but I'm not even aware that it's making me feel unsafe, my inner child is trying the best to navigate these waters, for my best interest right now. And sometimes she gets it right. And a lot of times, she's using data from her experiences. So as I say it in my courses, like she's seen everything that's happened to me, okay. Every time someone has chased me home with a rock, which has happened, chased me home with the rock, just to tease me every time, like my parents didn't show up to what performance she's been there. You know, she remembers everything. So even though I'm like Cynthia, the social worker, that therapist when I started to feel like, unsafe, she'd be like, oh, you know what you have to do. Our inner child shows up and tells us our exit strategy. And usually, if we're not taking care of them, it's not going to be something that is in our highest good. So our inner child in another way is also so that isn't very psychological term that is really given to us by Carl Jung, sorry to get so, but he was best friends with with Freud. Okay. And so Carl, you discovered, you know, or coined the term inner child, which is our subconscious, but in a scientific term, I just get fascinated by this. Our inner child is really ruling our autonomic nervous system. And that is like them sitting at the helm pulling the strings like, hey, hey, HTTPS, you know, like, run? Fight? Yeah, don't go to that party because they didn't invite you. So that's what we're
Alison Cebulla 25:35
here. Okay.
Anne Sherry 25:36
Pretend you don't care. Yeah. So it's,
Cynthia Perez 25:39
it's yes, fun. So it's literally changing our nervous system. So not only is it the psychological thing, it is very inherently, our aces, and how it's interpreted by our inner child. And that is because when we are in fight or flight mode, when we feel threatened, we shut down access to our prefrontal cortex, which is our reason and our ability.
Alison Cebulla 25:59
And all that man, people need to understand that we are threatened when you and when even if you just have a little memory, you're not even threatened. But it's a memory of a time you were threatened. Forget it, your rational brain is gone. It is gone.
Cynthia Perez 26:15
And you don't even know you're not being rational. You've heard so why am I acting like this? Yeah, like you are scared in some other other way?
Alison Cebulla 26:23
Yes, yes. Yes. Which
Anne Sherry 26:25
is another term? Yeah, those are those protectors that like keep, do you are you do you know, internal family systems? Yes. So yeah, that is, which is totally you are speaking it. I love having it coming from all kinds of angles. But yeah, we get into protector mode. And it's just like, I'm just gonna not feel anything which I love you like pointing right here to your chest to the inner child? Yeah.
Cynthia Perez 26:50
You know, well, some of us might feel it differently in a different spot. Like in therapy. Some people are like, it's in my tummy. It's in my throat for me for a long time it was in my throat. I could not get out what I had to say. So that's why when you see my real, yes, yes, that is so much of our inner child. Yeah, yeah. So it was in this work that I really started. I was scared. I did this workshop for six weeks. And I actually told the facilitator, this is a great workshop. But we need more, you can't just leave people like this. This is like you dropped, like my childhood. And you were like, bye. And that's exactly what I don't want, right? Like, don't drop my childhood on me and leave. Yeah, so I just started doing this work on my own, in my own like crying moments in my own and really started connecting with that voice. So inner child work is the action of mindfully giving that child empathy validation in every moment, which is really building your self compassion. So it's scientifically proven, but it also is very life transforming. That was an answer to that. Yeah,
Anne Sherry 27:51
that's awesome. And I love what you just said there in every moment. Because people what people will do is they come to it. Well, I go to therapy, and it's like, well, what do you do? That's one hour a week? Maybe? What do you I don't know, how many hours are in a week, waking hours? What do you do during that time? Because the theory, you know, they're like, nothing's changing, you know? And it's like, you're right. It's every moment. Just keep trying keep going to be right there. I mean, you get the awarenesses and therapy, but I that's your reels feel so important. Because it's like, okay, now here, you can do it now. Hey, did this ever happen? Like you have a you're making me understanding? Yeah, yeah.
Cynthia Perez 28:32
Thank you. You know, what's wild about that? First of all, if you could just, you made me have an aha moment if I can share? Sure. When you said that. I always tell people that it's not like in my workshops. It's not what we're doing. Here it is. We're talking in community. So yes, that's validation. That's community healing. That's like, changing our shame stories. But it's also everyday after this, what are you doing to implement this but you just kind of made me have an aha moment. Maybe when we come to therapy in this wounded place of like, Oh, my inner child needs some guidance. We're thinking that that therapist is supposed to guide us every week, but really, that's one hour. You then are supposed to be free to find the inner child within you but they're looking for the therapists to like, Okay, I got my one hour where I'm getting my attunement know stuff. It's not that one hour but that's a lot that sounds very childlike, right to like, look for the person to tell you it all. And it's like,
Anne Sherry 29:25
the other side of the coin is people like Yeah, but I don't want to talk about any of that inner child shit. I'm not doing my childhood like I'm here. And I'm just like fat and shadow. I'll take your money, but it's going to childhood. I promise you I promise you I promise you Yeah, but there's some Yeah, that painful? No, no, no, go there. Yeah, like that is a great place.
Cynthia Perez 29:52
We fear it because when we were kids, really all we needed was some validation. If you look at the book, No, I didn't. With you, what was the other book? The main book I can't even draw. Okay. Well, like the score. Yes, that's exactly the book. Thank you. So main my brain was,
Alison Cebulla 30:09
you know, the main book, and you gotta keep score you got.
Cynthia Perez 30:17
So the body keeps us more, they show a picture, they talk about 911 and the Twin Towers falling, and how one child saw the Twin Towers falling and drew it and drew it like every day, nobody explained it to them. They were just adults, like in crisis themselves saying, Oh, my gosh, this would happen. So nobody explains that catastrophe to him. So he started drawing it in these airplanes. And so he made his own story up after that. But once he started therapy, and they could tell them what happened in the story, and he could sit with it and make sense of it, his body relaxed. And so really, in that moment, children just need us to hold space for them. They need validation, they need to be able to ask questions, and know that they're safe. This could be done in five minutes every time they need it. Even the book says Like if they bring it up the car accident up again. validate them again, it's okay. There doesn't need to be an ending. But so often when we were kids, we just needed validation. And we didn't get it. We were like shushed we were hurried. And I have theories about that. But the biggest thing is we're afraid as adults, like, I can't go back there. Because when I see what I did, or how they treated me, it's gonna hurt again. But they're not getting your pain. Yes. And they're forgetting that what they're doing is they're once again, leaving that little child there to think of it themselves. You're leaving that little kid in the forest in your inner world? And they're just like, oh, yeah, you're right. I don't deserve to be seen. Okay,
Alison Cebulla 31:40
we got a huge thing for right now. That's Oh, my God, you're leaving when I child again? Yes.
Cynthia Perez 31:47
Oh, because we think we have to, we think like, I deserve to get hit. Right? I deserve that's a very real thought, then I don't need to go and console that child, she did something bad. But when we can look into them and say, You didn't do you're just a kid and you were afraid. Or, you know, look at the home you grew up in, like for me right now my home is so peaceful. And that is it really gives me guilt. But it also gives me compassion. Because, you know, my parents, you know, they they still suffer internally because of their own inability to create peace, you know, but I look at my home, and I hold my inner child daily with grief and compassion, of like, you didn't have this. So no wonder you didn't feel safe to say this. And so when we can go back and say, Oh, you are not looking at this from the adults who shamed you. I'm looking at this from the world of my inner child, and all that they they were afraid of, then we can go oh, my gosh. And then I literally sit consoler for two minutes, and we're good to go. On here. I was like,
Anne Sherry 32:51
Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah.
Cynthia Perez 32:54
So can I tell you something cool, though, I two things like all these little facts that you had, when I started to really read a fact. And I'm like, wait, and I go further? What does this mean for me? What does this mean for my possibilities of healing? One of them is this Did you know like, as much as our brain shuts down, when you're in fight or flight, it's cutting off the prefrontal cortex? Well, our brain starts from the bottom up, right? Our brainstem is online when we're in our mom's tummy, but it's also carrying seven generations back. So in our brainstem, we already have all the genes that we're going to have our epigenetics or, or whatever you said about our angiogram, whatever. It's their Enneagram. So we're born Yeah. Enneagram. Yeah, so our brain is born off. You know, with the brainstem, we're newborns. So it starts to grow. If you think about it, it grows with our parents. environment. So if our parents if my mom had postpartum, my brain is growing, it's survival, as my mom is raising me with her survival. So how is my brain not going to pick up all of these like, danger, or be careful or, or fawn because they're not going to know how to do it. So you better just play quiet. And so when I started to think about the fact that our prefrontal cortex cuts off, I started reading that also, our brainstem starts to, you know, it's the oldest one. So it's like the big brother, like I know what to do, we're going to cut off the perimeter, I can take care of it. Let's protect the baby, the newest part of our brain. But the problem is the baby is the evolved version of us. The lower part of our brain is what every animal has. So in that hippocampus, the amygdala is going to tell you what's important. So you're only going to keep these memories because it's but guess what they tell the brain to keep scary memories
Alison Cebulla 34:39
to keep you alive, right? That's why you learn when your body is that your nervous system has one job and it's to prevent you from dying. And so like you have to think like if you are potentially going to eat something poisonous or whatever every single part of your body is going to try and prevent you from dying of that poison, right. So you're going to have a gag reflex or you're going Throw up or you're gonna write and so your body is doing this all the time. It's just constantly like, I don't want to die. Let me react so I don't die. Let me prevent myself from dying. Like we have to know this about ourselves. We're constantly just constantly trying to die. Oh, really? Yes,
Cynthia Perez 35:18
yes. And that's a really big reason why I do this work because we are animals and we keep judging ourselves. We are animals and we're nature. Okay? We're both. But we keep saying like, we're humans. Were you? Okay? We're humans. But like, when you look at the trees, do you go outside and talk shit to trees? No, you're like, wow, look at the leaves. Look at this crooked branch. It looks like you know, right? Yeah.
Anne Sherry 35:44
Yeah. Mad tree. Yeah.
Cynthia Perez 35:48
But then we're like, look at me in my round nose. I'm a tree. I don't need to come and look. So the other thing I learned in this work, and it this, this is the thing, I haven't said it on a reel because I'm like, Oh, I don't know where this is the right place. I don't know what I'm looking for the the APA reference, I'm gonna find it. It was on a podcast, when you start to do this work of unlocking your childhood and going through these, these memories with love and with compassion. And now I'm healing these wounds, guess what happens? Our prefrontal cortex goes, oh, oh, we're done with this memory. We don't need it. It's a safe memory. And it kind of like, kisses it to the sky and lets you like take it into your awareness. But guess what else happens? It's it goes, Oh, well, I guess we have more room for more memories. So it opens up your ability to remember more good things about more things
Alison Cebulla 36:38
I've seen happen for myself.
Anne Sherry 36:42
Talks about like, is that not like to grief work, like actually going through the grief recovery process, I can't remember which episode, but it does, it gets it gets less it gets you flesh it out, you flesh out the experience. And one thing I find with clients that do not want to go to the dark material, because there's this loyalty to parents or whatever, like, but they you know, they're constantly doing this dance of like, but they were they worked really hard. They worked. They were really stressed. They weren't you know, and I'm like, oh, let's put let's put mom and dad or whoever raised you over in the big ol compassion room. Like they're safe over there. Okay, what happened? You know, we got to deal with that first. And they just have to trust that, like, if we transform I love how you're like saying it, how it's happening in the brain transforming that material. What happens because people are like, I'm going to open up stuff, and then I'm gonna hate my parents, and then I'm gonna have to tell them to fuck off and then whatever. And it's like, what happens? Actually, if you really do that work, and it feels forever? In my case, I know that, that you're like, oh, my gosh, I can actually have compassion for my parents and your career. Yeah,
Cynthia Perez 37:51
I can relate. Because we've never felt this way. It's yeah. How do you know when you've never, you don't
Anne Sherry 37:57
want people to get away with shit, too, is another side that I hear a lot. If I heal this, then that bastard gets away with it. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not. I have not pleased. I
Cynthia Perez 38:08
feel that. Yes. So that inner child, okay, first of all, can I just say this was not going to be my niche, I can now say, I'm an inner child Hypponen. Because I feel like I had to embody this work. I left my career in healthcare in 2021. Because I my body physically couldn't go into the office. I could not keep doing the work the way that they it was just so shameful. So I was like, I have to really embody this inner child stuff. So when you said that they're like, Oh, my parents, but I feel so bad. That's the inner child saying, Oh, but But I deserved this. But I was always like, what is that? And it was, if we were a child, and we were like, No, my life just sucks. This is how it's gonna be for 20 years. My parents don't know what they're doing. Like, what would we do? We would have a panic attack. So we had to revise protector to write the shot. Yeah, yes. And it's so now when people do that, it's like, that is why you need the inner child work. But also they're thinking like, today, just today before your podcast, I talked to my sister. And I was like, I think that you're
Anne Sherry 39:09
like, I looked around to see if she was there. Like, literally just looked around to see if it was okay to share this with the billions of
Alison Cebulla 39:17
dollars that we have. I do that too. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. You can write
Cynthia Perez 39:28
your wealth here. And I literally unblocked her from my Instagram today. She's like, I sent her a reel today. And she's like, I can't access your Instagram. I was like, oh, it's because I blocked the whole family long time ago was like, be here. Now that she got this inner child work is very personal, like they have no idea some of this stuff because I don't want to hurt them. But it's because it's my life. And that's when we start to as inner children say, I understand that. My parents might feel hurt, but I need to find out what happened in my own life. It was my parents raising me but this is my life that I was raised. And, and so when we can separate that even my own sister was like, I'm not ready yet because I'm in a good place in my life. And I don't need that. And I was like, this is the thing though, your child.
Alison Cebulla 40:12
We got a little we got a little bit from Cynthia. Okay, yeah.
Cynthia Perez 40:17
Another off topic, but, but I was like I understand that but you know, this stuff shows up in our adult life every day and you don't think it is you're thinking I'm talking about just inner child stuff. And then she goes on to talk about her career. And I was like, see your word that scarcity at from childhood? And she's like, What do you mean? And I was like, You're afraid if you try this new career, that it's not going to work out. I was like, but that's because our dad didn't let us try new things because we grew up poor, and he grew up extremely poor. So trying a new class, trying a new, like, literally in college, if I may share. I remember we went to City College first and he paid for it as Mexicans. It's like you don't leave home. I didn't leave home till I was 26. Y'all. Right? My brain
Anne Sherry 41:00
back home with my ex husband. So
Alison Cebulla 41:04
anyway, yeah. 2627
Anne Sherry 41:06
Yes, it was. Yeah,
Alison Cebulla 41:06
that's just, that's just funny. Oh, yeah. Anyway, yeah.
Cynthia Perez 41:11
Yeah. Well, I lived at home till I was 26. And I was thinking my brain was being molded for 26 years in that. Yeah, I deserve compassion for what my brain was being created under what environment right? Yeah. But I have this memory of my sister. I was in high school and she was like a sophomore in college at City College. Nobody had ever gone to college in this country before. But she was the first and she took pottery class and she took art class. My sister is very creative. She was very creative. And my dad's like, why are you taking these bullshit courses? I'm not paying for you. You need to take engineering, you need to take math. And they're like, you have to these are requirements that he didn't believe it. He thought she was lying in this day. I still see it. She made these beautiful vases and this beautiful thing. And my dad was like, Don't ever waste my money again and threw her ceramics in the fireplace and they shattered.
Alison Cebulla 42:06
Oh, absolutely not.
Cynthia Perez 42:09
As her sister I cried. I yelled at my dad. It hurt me and my sister's face she never graduated college she dropped out. She became a very successful mortgage. She does like mortgages now. Uh, yeah, but I always the other this year in my own work. I keep that memory is so strong. Even my little brother's like remember that? It was like, it was like so much of it for us. My dad's a Porsche crashing her dreams. Yeah, yeah. But that scarcity. Do you see now she doesn't want to try something? Right? Because what if it doesn't work out when I was like You did so good at your, your ceramics. But he was like, No, this is not the end goal trash. So it's not about scarcity tells us like if you're not going to be successful, if you're going to fail, don't do it. When expansive mindsets tells us it doesn't matter. You're doing it for the joy of it for the expression for the love for the rest. So anyway, that's how inner child went
Alison Cebulla 43:00
back to that, that immigrant that immigrant trauma that specific. I mean, when we had yen on here to talk about that there's so much economic she calls it economic violence, you know, inflicted upon immigrants that your parents are in survival mode.
Anne Sherry 43:17
There's no safety. All right. Oh, so yeah, yeah.
Alison Cebulla 43:21
You know, yeah, that her parents weren't able to access any sort of benefits because they, I don't think they were I don't know if they had the all the paperwork yet when they immigrated to Hawaii from China. But I that I think, as white folks who, you know, for me, my last immigrant family members came over, like around 1900 or something, and so far removed from that trauma, you know, that when it's like your parents, you know, or you I think as white people, we really need to hold space for that and really hold that in our hearts and understand how painful that is.
Cynthia Perez 43:55
Will thank you and
Anne Sherry 43:57
I don't really like as white therapists like we get into if you're not doing some sort of cultural we get one class and you know, cultural competency three hours and your your master's program and maybe it's changing but that was like a que crap accredited school I went to and that was it. And like, you know, we come at it with like, well, you really, you need to have better boundaries, you know, but like, that's sort of like white people cutting each other off all the time. Like, well, they just don't exist to me anymore. But in like, many families, it's like, well, he's my brother, you know? And I'm like, Yeah, to me, he should be dead. Do you know what's going on? It's like, oh, you actually love you actually have Yeah, I know. But it's coming often, but this like, preconceived like Well, that's not good boundaries. You know, I don't know. So it's really white therapists certainly need to do lots of ongoing work around. Oh, yeah. Yeah,
Alison Cebulla 44:57
we're a mess.
Cynthia Perez 44:58
Well, you will thinking, Well, I think well, no, no, I was thinking like how true even like my husband, he's Chicano, and we're both Chicano, I have my bachelor's in Chicano Studies, you
Alison Cebulla 45:09
just define what Chicago means for sure is great. Sure, Chicano
Cynthia Perez 45:13
means usually it means born in the US to Mexican parents. So you're of Mexican ancestry, but it's really an identity you claim. So people might say, Mexican American, and that's fine. But if someone tells you they're Chicano, they're claiming this identity. It's it's usually it has tones of political activism. And so it's very much like straddling both cultures. So I could say I'm Mexican American, but I choose to say on Chicana, it kind of tells you a little bit more. Yeah. So my husband is Chicano for generations here. So he doesn't speak Spanish. He's darker skin than me. And you would think everyone talks to him in Spanish. And he looks at me and I'm like, see you at the point that you that like you, you know, yeah, so you would think, but our lives have been very different. So his parents are Mexican, but they grew up in a more American and really seeking the white gaze. That's what we call it seeking the white gaze and really fawning to the white gaze and my parents found in a different way, in a in a way that was violent towards us. But what I learned is even in my husband, I'll like call them crying with my mom, she doesn't know how to use the remote optical drive over there. You know, my mom has a lot of this rescuing behavior that we have. And he's like, Why can't she just figure it out? Why is that your problem? And it's helpful. It's helpful when he does this sometimes, because he grounds me back to you don't need to do everything. But then sometimes, emotionally, I realize he can hear me but he's not going to relate because it's not his experience. And so I call my other friends who have immigrant parents, and we sometimes cry about it. And we just grieve and we just sit with it.
Anne Sherry 46:43
Yeah, let
Alison Cebulla 46:44
me ask you, because you know, on your Instagram profile, it says that you're a social, social justice based therapist. Tell us a little bit about what that means to you.
Cynthia Perez 46:54
Sure. Thank you for asking. I got my bachelor's in Chicano Studies at Cal State Long Beach in 2006. Now, I was going to be a teacher. Thank you. But I took a class at that Long Beach City College. That was Mexican history. And I tell you, I was in business math. I'm not good at math. I'm not well, I'm not gonna say that. I always felt like I wasn't. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so I took this history of Mexico class because I needed to and I was like this I could not. I was fascinated about learning about my ends and, and how we used to speak narwhal and just our culture. And so I was like, I need more. It was like, it was like a novella of my life. So I started, I switched my major and my, my parents didn't like it. I'm paying for you again, money. I'm paying for you to go to college. My whole savings for you to learn how to be Mexican. Like, what will the family in Mexico say? Right? But I have always since I was a kid been social justice, justice drawn. When I was a kid, I would always think like, Where would my parents use the the water fountain if they were here? You know, like border versus Westminister? Where would they be? And so I always checked out books that were on black abolitionist. I love black abolitionist memories, biographies. I just really love how black leaders black abolitionist, you know, really were the forefront of the movement for so many people of color without black leaders we wouldn't have because Latinos have the the citizenship status that keeps us afraid. And so we need blackly, we needed black leaders to I mean, it was like they had no choice, right with oppression. Right? Right. Right. I always looked up to it. And so it's always been me, like always as a child. And so after my Bachelor's, I didn't know what I was going to do with this. So I became a therapist, and I really have been in systems doing, I did foster care. I've done you want to hear a weird niche I did. Senior citizens that were undocumented, over the age of 60, with an HIV status. And, and so it was very niche. And so all of these experiences, I was like, I need to help you on a different level. What they've taught me is not what we're dealing with, we're dealing with systemic issues, we're dealing with citizenship issues, and my work is telling me like we'll figure it out. And we're not addressing these things. And these trainings are not addressing these things. And so, I noticed in the pandemic, a lot of social inequities happening in COVID and it really was bothering me it made me sick to my stomach they would say the
Alison Cebulla 49:20
same Oh, and white people that could not hold compassion. You are killing people of color in this country right now. What are you doing? Stay at home put a mask on anyway, go on well, and
Cynthia Perez 49:32
well for me, I'll tell you what it looked like in my space. Right? It was like, I get that we're just working but it would look like Latinos you guys are hard workers. So go work like you're better now go work and for a lot of it is us. A lot of it is us as Latinos because we're colonized. We will go work but I would see people makes me want to call me in Spanish and they would cry and saying like, I need another month off of work. My doctor won't sign me off. I have COVID And because the dog After was like, didn't make the extra effort to talk to them with a translator. They were like, go back to work. But if you were to really talk to them and hear about their symptoms, I would have to go back to the doctors. And the minute I would say, Hey, I talked to this client, they're like, Oh, sure, no problem. And I would see it every day, like five times a day that this person was just going to go back to work. But because I intercepted in Spanish, and advocated they didn't care. And sometimes they would say, I thought the patient was malingering, which is lying, basically saying,
Anne Sherry 50:30
You're being something. Yep. And when
Cynthia Perez 50:33
I hear like, so now the work I do, I also do a contract. And it's with farmworkers. So anyway, I have seen so many things where I was like, nobody's going to name this unless I name it. So I started using my my love and my passion of Chicano Studies, and really ethnic studies. And so in every workshop, I do, like six week workshops, I do hour long workshops, for agencies, corporations, health care, and I do like close groups for people like us. But it's really to teach you alongside with psychology, why it's so hard to forget these beliefs. Because in history, there's been colonialism. There's been capitalism, I explain what internalized capitalism is, the colonialism that's even ingrained in white people, against black people, and how that's impacting white people's own healing, right? I talk about people of color, and I break it down like why we are so why the US is created out of shame. And so this shame is systemic. And so the minute you go to school, and you're not in uniform, you get a beat, you feel your autonomic nervous system like this. And it's on purpose to be shameful. So when we can heal our inner child, we can change the autonomic nervous but what I noticed in these courses, I was taking mostly by white people, they did a great job. But they were not hitting something that I needed to see. Like, it was literally like, people that were couples, they did the best, but they were so lovey, and I almost said fake. They were so
Alison Cebulla 52:01
you pick a little bit of a little bit of fake energy. You picked out some Yeah, it
Cynthia Perez 52:05
was just, it was so flowery that I was like, yeah, so it's really bringing in data, holding space for Asus holding space for literal, you know, like ways like I talk about just every race and how they've been shamed into not having their cultural traditions assimilation, and then people talk about it. And when we talk about in community, we are like having these amazing combos. So yes, every workshop, I get real, but I hold it with compassion. I am not there to shame white people. And I am not there to say that people of color like oh, look at us, we're victims. No, but once we can see ourselves in the data and say, Wait a minute, I am not responsible for all of this, and how can I move through this system? Without letting them rob me of everything?
Anne Sherry 52:50
Yeah.
Alison Cebulla 52:51
Thank you. Thank you, Cynthia. That was brilliant. And yeah, I, you know, part of our mission on this podcast is to look into like, all of the ways that why don't we care? We say that a lot. Why can't fire Yeah. And for white people. We have so much power. And I really see it over and over and over about the closing of white people's hearts because the trauma that our ancestors have inflicted upon peoples all over the whole world and in the United States is so horrific, that I really think that a lot of white people do not want to open their hearts to that pain, because it is so horrific. It is so horrific. The damage. Thank
Cynthia Perez 53:37
you for saying that. I feel like I haven't heard someone say that. And you saying it kind of feels like it just? Yeah.
Anne Sherry 53:45
Well Rasma has a in my grandmother's hands. There's one of the exercises he runs you through which is it's a it's some tough stuff for sure. But he has you look at one of those sort of classic pictures from you know, postcards of a hanging of a lynching. And he has you look at like you have to you know as the white person you're you're focusing in on look at the white people in picture. Just watching. Yeah, and if you're really checking in you can you just well, you will get a big insight into why you're frozen around talking about race, leaning into epigenetics
Cynthia Perez 54:23
euros that is your wife epigenetics because
Anne Sherry 54:27
genetics yes completely was sanctioned. Your doctor was at the lynching the dentist was at the butcher that everybody was at the lynching and you're a little kid going Why am I eating popcorn watching somebody be late and
Alison Cebulla 54:39
you just and your heart was around that
Anne Sherry 54:43
is not a child a child does not have the capacity to anyways. So it's just those are the those are the important things that we have to feel this in our body. We have thank you that trauma on those levels. So I have this like idea of this the Infinity Keep sort of thing do your personal work, head out in give it a try in Yeah, racial work, and then you're gonna get all fucked up in that and be like, yeah. And then come back with you having your work of just like right there in the moment. It's like, of course this is of course you got frozen. Of course you can't speak it's okay to just go and do two minutes of something rather than, like you suck and you should know this, you know, like, we're not gonna get anywhere if we're just canceling and shaming and blah, you know, but like, can I get moment?
Unknown Speaker 55:35
Oh, yeah, so
Cynthia Perez 55:36
what you said? Yeah, okay. Yeah, let's unpack this. The compassion piece is what's missing? I was like, What is this? Because I'm such an empath. I'm such a highly sensitive person. I have ADHD. So my brain is flowery it is. If you say something, I'm imagining it's there. So when I would hear these atrocious atrocities in therapy, I'm like, Ah, I don't want this because I see it. But I was like, what is it? We have been so cut off from our own self compassion and compassion for others, that we don't we like these systems. They say things like kindness, we love everybody human rights, but then they don't back it up for shit. It's actually the opposite. It's shaming. And so it's been all these nuggets. And it's like, as children, we want to like, just kind of glaze over it because it feels too scary. And what you're saying, I love that because it feels so hopeful. Because I'm like, listen, white people could just talk to themselves about like, healing because it's okay to go back in there. It's not your stuff. Like somebody shared a really vulnerable comment in my reels. And I appreciated it. They said, as a white person. I'm afraid to get in touch with my ancestors, because who am I getting in touch with Siri? What am I doing? And I was like, it was motherfucking. Work. Could here we go again, right with compassion. Yeah, so I'm not saying and forgive me. I don't mean to sound rude. But I'm not saying the person I feel most sad for is a white woman. That's not what I'm saying. But I will say if I hold a white woman here and say how they had to act out in Frozen ways, I'm talking like racist. Yeah, you know, this racist blade. I mean, there's still racism in this history. But these like the days of enslaved people and lynchings, they were acting in their own autonomic nervous system because of the patriarchy in their own home, and because of their inner child and colonial. So I get that. So once we can be like, Hey, your ancestors, you might have compassion for them now and why they had to do it. But you're not getting anywhere in compassion in real time. If you don't do the work. That's right. Like we're getting nowhere. We're in quicksand. True. I know, some really compassionate woke, white people, they are down like I could tell you all are, they are so down. And I'll ask because I live in Long Beach. And I'm like, What is it with? Like, what do you think it is? And they're like, I think I'm just open to it. I'm open to feeling all of it. And I'm like, That's the
Alison Cebulla 57:52
open to feeling all of it is it is and having a friend like and I gotta tell you, like I went on this mission in 2018, where I wanted to learn about black pain in the United States. I wanted to take it all in. So I drove to the lynching memorial in Montgomery and cried all day, and then I drove to Atlanta, and I went to the what's the museum called there? The peace and justice, peace of justice? Yeah. So I went there, I absorbed all of that. And then I went to ANZ and I sat down with in Asheville, I sat down with Anne and Anne was like, Oh, well, I've been doing all this work at church, and you got to read these five, or 12 books. And I downloaded every single one of them, you know, and listened to all of them. And then I would check in with an, I don't know if you can find white people as as a white person, if you go into your white groups, I have a white lady group I've been gay for because
Anne Sherry 58:49
you need to go and work your shit out. Like there when you feel helpless.
Cynthia Perez 58:53
That helps us just hearing it helps us because we're like, oh, you know, and it's Yeah. And it's also a harbouring place for them to be asked these questions in safety. And it's fine, because we don't want to do all the work. I've even had therapists in my private private practice. I've had a cup, I've had a client who's I've had white clients, it's fine, but one client and she's, they're not, they're not my client anymore. But when they would bring up racism in their home, it really impacted me. And it almost shocked me. But then sometimes I noticed that it had no point in the thing. It was almost like she wanted to let me know, because then I was like, it was like, and I realized it's not fair to me to hold space for those stories. I don't need to hold space for those stories. So it ended up you know, but yeah, but just hearing it is really great. And I think to know that those spaces exist. Thank
Alison Cebulla 59:42
you. I looked it up. It's the Civil Rights Museum in the Civil Rights Museum. Yeah, Peace and Justice Islam, lynching Memorial, Hermann, Mancha and civil rights in Atlanta. And I also went to on the same trip I went all in I went to the Frederick Douglass House in Washington, DC and then That was amazing. So, white people, if you want to go on a black pain, pilgrimage, and really take this all in, I highly recommend all of those places and I am like you got to do this work. You just have to because there's way too much pain. What's your
Anne Sherry 1:00:14
history? Like? Expand the capacity? Expand your history? Yes.
Cynthia Perez 1:00:17
Yeah. Listen, you want some more pain? Yes. Give it because I'm okay. One thing I want to disclaim is the reason I could be this joyful is I had to cut some things back. And one thing is I am a sucker for pain. Yeah, as much as I love hearing hard stories, I would after a whole day of therapy, I would go home and like watch horrible documentaries. One of them, just one of them hurt me so bad. I just couldn't watch these documentaries anymore, which was Gabriel Hernandez, the trial of Gabriel Hernandez, which is a really horrible case where DCFS failed a child in LA. But anyway, so what I like to do historically, is to read up about in the history, but one thing I did do recently is when I was in San Luis Obispo, I was like, this land is so beautiful. Let me see who was on this land before white people. And then the stories of all the indigenous massacres. I'm like, here I am on this land. You know, I you have to cut it off after a while. But
Alison Cebulla 1:01:09
you have to cut it off for a while. Yeah, there's no end to the horrors. Yeah, yeah.
Anne Sherry 1:01:13
I mean, again, that infinity stuff like just keep moving keep doing the personal work because it is it is a shit show. This culture that we're in whatever it is that we're in. And it's designed to be like, This is how I sort of bring in I'm have brought in just the Not that we can do a ton about the the big pieces. But but people come in, not individually, collectively, yes. But people will come into therapy and they're like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? I'm like, That is a message that's been instilled so that you don't like say anything or speak or go out and work in your local community, by feds to help you buy things it is like it is we it is so insane that we are designed to just turn in on ourselves and like, I must be a shithead I'm just a terrible person. I can't so
Alison Cebulla 1:02:02
out well, okay. I just want to ask Cynthia just in a couple of words or sentences. I mean, what is the world you're trying to create with your work?
Cynthia Perez 1:02:10
Wow, thank you. Oh, you know, I really had to think about this. Because I left I left a pension job. And I say that because children of immigrants don't do that. Right? Don't do that. And so every day, I'm like, you're good. You're good. Like, I find myself typing in Indeed, even though my business is going well. And I'm like, you know, so I have to constantly remind myself of my why's and the world I want to make and it's really this is that I feel like, right now we have the only chance we might ever have to really hold down mental health and say no moving forward, we need to change the way that it's delivered. So the world I'm trying to create is one that is collective, that is joy centered, but we do not skirt any issues of grief and shame we hold space for it, but through a ways that are joyful and not oppressive. And by that I mean, you know, being with each other, being with the land, being in community with the land and being with our inner child. So the world I'm trying to create is really one that goes back to our own knowingness and the land of knowingness.
Alison Cebulla 1:03:21
Thank you. Yeah, okay, now it's feelings. We'll tie
Okay, and I think it's gonna go first, so it's gonna be and then all go then Cynthia, you can go so and tell me tell me when to stop. Stop it. Proud.
Anne Sherry 1:03:54
Proud. Proud. Okay. I am noticing one I'm noticing, like, oh, it's not okay to be proud. Yeah, so that's interesting. I think that's a little that's certainly a little inner child here. Okay. So I can feel there's definitely swirly swirlies in my middle chest here. And what we do is, say where we feel in our body. And now when have I been proud? You know what? I'm proud of the artwork that I do.
Alison Cebulla 1:04:28
To re
Anne Sherry 1:04:30
set the icon. I've been on a mission. Yeah, I will send you Yes, I have an art table in my office. Yeah, I have an art table that has taken me a long time to find an office big enough to but it's happening and I come in here and I was all fucked up this morning. Just, I don't know too many things going on. Oh, and I was like, I'm just gonna sit in my office. I cried at a church meeting and I suck and blah, blah, blah. And I just walked in my art table and just got to work. Like just doing whatever and So I have that you know, just whatever you know, it's I call it trash art, I pick up trash on the ground and like bring it in and just glue it to shit, right?
Cynthia Perez 1:05:07
Shit.
Anne Sherry 1:05:11
That's gonna be the tag and I do want to buy it. Right I am very, very proud of what however I got here it has been a long it's been from high school when I was when I was the hero of the family but I would walk by the art class and I would see the artists in there and I just wanted to be a burnout artist and I had to be captain of the basketball team to save my family. So anyways we made we do our whenever we want, okay,
Cynthia Perez 1:05:40
like we can do that and you're like we sure can baby doing it. Okay, tell me when to stop.
Anne Sherry 1:05:50
Okay, Allison's
Alison Cebulla 1:05:54
peaceful. I'm okay. So I'm going to start with my example. I did this miraculous thing the other day. So I, in past lives before the pandemic, felt like I was like, really doing well with like, my presence, like I was really good at having presence. And then during the pandemic, I have not been present, I have been anywhere but in my body or in the present moment. I'm just like, don't want to make eye contact with people don't want to like be like, feel that you exist. And I exist. Like when I'm in the grocery store. I'm like, let me just get out of here. And that's because of the pandemic because breathing on each other was literally could kill you. So I'm tired of the not being present than not peaceful is this tension and this caving inward and I'm tired. So the other day I was at Trader Joe's. And I was like, why don't you get present right now. And I just opened it up. And I took a deep breath. And when I got to the thing, it was weird. The Checkout guy, he he like, jumped back when I came up. He like literally flinched. He, like noticed that I was like present, it was the weirdest thing where it was like the most immediate. He's like, it was like my shift and energy like shifted like, it was like a shock wave. Yes. I see it. Yeah, it was so wild. It was like so immediate. And he was like, hey, you know, I know, you know, Trader Joe's guys. They they go all the way. Yeah, yeah. He was like,
Anne Sherry 1:07:25
this afternoon. I'm like, Look off. Yeah,
Alison Cebulla 1:07:27
I know. But I was able to finally instead of just like, please leave me alone. And let me just get out of here. You know, and like ducking out, I was like, you know, I had a rough day. How was yours? And oh, and I was like I showed up for myself. I was really showing up for myself. But when you kind of when you show up for other people, you're your own body really feels that you know, and like, like, actually people people can tell when you actually care how they're doing, which is what makes Trader Joe's people so weird because they actually care how do they do that? And
Anne Sherry 1:07:59
yes, they did. What? Yeah,
Alison Cebulla 1:08:02
they're treated well, and they're paid well. And, and so that piece in my body felt like like my shoulders were brought more broad, you know, like piece feels like like, oh, like my body is open and safe. I feel safe and so I'm I can take up space. So that is what peaceful. Feels like for me. That's my
Cynthia Perez 1:08:25
you know, I was gonna say what you picture what I pictured is you stepped into your power in that moment. Thank you we're feeling powerless. You're like what do I need and the minute you did it your power like You're like so it really was you stepping in like I'm claiming this power now and the power was so strong that the man felt it it like jolted him away it literally
Alison Cebulla 1:08:45
jolted him. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Yeah.
Cynthia Perez 1:08:51
You when you are in your present when you are present, you are powerful. Yeah, that's cool.
Alison Cebulla 1:08:57
Yeah. Okay, your turn. So if I finger going around the feelings will you just tell me when to stop?
Cynthia Perez 1:09:03
Okay, I tell you okay, go stop. Weak who feeling a weak bladder because I have to go to the bathroom. My that's my, you know, my my womb. That's how it happens. But I you know, I let me tap into that. It's kind of nice that I don't immediately feel weak, which is not always me
I'm feeling it in my chest. I'm feeling like this rapidness because I feel like for the rest of the day, I have to like carry the day because I got I got this time off. So I'm like, now I have to do these things. I already have plans. It's going to be good, but I'm like, Can I do it? With enough patience? Am I strong enough to carry out the day So I guess I'm feeling weak in that.
Alison Cebulla 1:10:02
So inner child and inner child is coming in and like,
Anne Sherry 1:10:06
yeah, what would you how would you work with her? Could I can I just like, give a watch her frickin Instagram? Which this is exactly what you do, like, what would you? How would you?
Alison Cebulla 1:10:16
Yeah, you know, what's
Cynthia Perez 1:10:17
funny about my Instagram is that it's, I used to be well, Mama lb, it was, Well, Mom lb, it was gonna be all postpartum. But really inner child was my own stuff, what I was doing, and I was like, people need to know this, this is like, changed my life as a mother, as a person as a wife. But what I would do is I talked to her and I'm like, listen, you're gonna pack your own, like, treats that you like, because I gotta take care of myself, you're gonna get your stuff that your kids enjoy. But I also am making sure I'm going to the beach with my friend. So we're going to make sure the beach is done, right? Who's Who's in charge of all that? And me, so I have to just sit? Right? But that's when she gets scared. She's like, we're gonna have to do it all ooh, I didn't even realize that you're helping me, you're gonna have to do it all you're gonna have to contain everyone. And it's like, no, we're going to have all these things. And we're going to go at the pace. So I let her know it's going to be fun. We're going to we're going to make sure we're prepared with my parents. They were never prepared. It was like, it was like a shit show. And so little sin would always have I think that's also why I'm so charismatic, is because if things went wrong, which they happen wrong a lot, I'd be like, Hey, I have to make friends has to like, survive in some way. And then people liked me because I was not like my family. That was I was like, Hey, let's you know, so I really give her that love and attention and make her have fun. So yes, thank you. I do it every day, by the way, like, every hour, I do
Anne Sherry 1:11:39
it right now. Like you're an elaboration to me that that reminder, that's what I say to people, like you're gonna have to do like, we've made contact with that inner child, so and then my inner children like, so it's our turn now, right? And I'm like, fuck yourself. No, I'm tired. I want some wine, like no
Cynthia Perez 1:11:57
child has done. And when I realized that a lot of times in my parent teen, it's my inner child feeling left out feeling unseen. Feeling like wait, right? When is it my turn? Why
Anne Sherry 1:12:08
did they get all that attention? I didn't get that attention. And you're giving them all that attention? Yeah, that is the parents turn inwards. It will make everything better. Yeah.
Cynthia Perez 1:12:18
Yes. Can I also say, sorry, I know, we're almost done. Oh, yeah. Inner Child work is also I'm not saying this is always going to happen. And I don't, I don't push people towards it. But it's helped me open up my relationship with my parents, I was very resentful. Yes. And I'm not saying everyone is going to work it out. You don't have to, that's not going to be everyone's journey. And it doesn't need to be because some parents aren't always going to get that forgiveness. But in doing this inner child work, I've been able to find compassion for myself, find compassion for my parents find forgiveness, even if I found forgiveness in my heart. That doesn't mean I tell them every day that doesn't mean I extend my boundaries to be open. This is all something in my internal world. And that's when I realized for so long, this is just the message I want to get across. It's like we've been looking for this validation from our parents. And really, the only person that needs validation is the person inside of you and they want it from you. Yes, we want it. We want to give
Anne Sherry 1:13:11
it to them actually accurately and authentically. And truly,
Alison Cebulla 1:13:16
thank you say hi. Oh my gosh, thanks for sharing your light with us and all of our listeners I just know that this is going to be such an impactful episode for our listeners. So thank you so much.
Cynthia Perez 1:13:26
Thank you for asking me thank you both Allison and and for even caring about this work for the work you do and like just this fun camaraderie. I really appreciate it.
Alison Cebulla 1:13:57
Thanks for listening to latchkey urchins and friends. If you like what you heard, follow subscribe rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts, but especially Spotify and Apple. And if you didn't like it, just go ahead and hold that in just like you've been doing since childhood. Just kidding. We love hearing feedback please visit us online at latchkey ergens.com Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. This podcast is produced by Alison Sutherland and Sherry episodes are edited by me Alison, their audio mastered by Josh Collins and our theme music is by Proxima parada.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
