Episode 2: Behind the Name "Latchkey Urchins & Friends"

Alison and Anne explain the meaning behind the name of the podcast: Latchkey Urchins & Friends. Were you a latchkey kid, an urchin, a ragamuffin, or something in your childhood years?

References/resources:

• Latchkey Kids Wikipedia
• Alison's work in child trauma education and prevention
• Trauma & Recovery:The Aftermath of Violence —from Domestic Abuse to Political Terror by Judith Herman (book)
• The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller

Transcript

Alison Cebulla 0:04
Hi, welcome to episode two of latchkey urchins and

Unknown Speaker 0:10
friends and friends.

Alison Cebulla 0:13
I'm Alison Cebulla.

Anne Sherry 0:15
And I'm Anne sherry.

Alison Cebulla 0:17
And then we wanted to take this episode to explain the frickin weird name of our podcast. So which, again, yeah, it was we we did some brainstorming around what we what we wanted the podcast to be about. And we knew we wanted to be around latchkey kids, there's already a podcast called latchkey kids out there. And Anne had this affinity for the name urchins. So I'm going to turn it over to Anne to start and we'll kind of dive in.

Anne Sherry 0:52
Okay. Um, so yeah, I think you and I, from our history with each other, we've talked about this throughout the time we've known each other just kind of that ability to take care of ourselves not need a whole lot, how this latch key idea plays into what we call sort of childhoods that felt neglectful. And that's not again, we you'll hear us say this a lot. We're not bashing parents. It's very structural. But I do have on so just latch key is that what I remember is, I mean, literally a dirty ass shoestring with some keys around your neck, and it felt like at a time it was, did you have did you have I had a shoestring and then it was sort of a point of pride for a while I can remember but then I became like, aware that not every kid was latchkey and people were coming home to parents and you know

Alison Cebulla 1:53
what to do for work? Oh, snap real estate. Real estate real estate? That's my office.

Anne Sherry 2:00
Oh, yeah.

Alison Cebulla 2:02
We had we had this in common Shut up. Yes.

Anne Sherry 2:05
Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. So everybody else is first gotta show that house gotta be on somebody else's schedule. Uh huh. No, yeah. So you know, it has its benefits and it's I don't know if you my kid who was not a latchkey kid. He loves the latchkey stories that I have just the snacks we made and I think that's another episode. But literally, it's you're coming home to an empty house. And it was night. I was born in 68. You had a key around your neck. I think I was coming home in second grade with my kindergartener brother. It probably for three hours or so. But the bus drops you off at 230 starting at age seven. Sounds like a great, yeah. Oh, no. As a seven year old, and a five year old gen X.

Alison Cebulla 2:58
Gen X was special because even though I would say that I was also a latchkey kid, it this didn't start until later. I feel like with Gen X, it was like between because my parents are boomers. And they were the style where they got home from school and mom was like, Get out of my face. And then they just ran around the neighborhood. But then they would like come back for dinner. Right? So then there's that. Then, starting with Gen X, your parents went to work both parents were like, and they were still like, still a little bit in that old mindset of like, the kids will be fine. It's fine. Yeah. So and I was born in the 80s. Right? So I'm an older millennial. And it was different. Like it was still like it was still like my parents were both at work. Right? So I didn't I still didn't have anyone to make snacks or tell me that they were glad I was around. Um, but the but the Going Home Alone didn't start till I was 11.

Anne Sherry 3:58
Yeah, that's still young. I mean, yeah. Here's an awesome quote that just sort of wrapped up what you and I are saying right here this is from Wikipedia, the only source I think I have in the world. The term latchkey kid became commonplace in the 1970s Me and 1980s due to describe members of Generation X, who according to a 2004 marketing study, quote went through its all important formative years as the least parented least nurtured generations. In us. We won something trophy for the latchkey generation, whether you wanted to or not, that's, yeah, yeah. So it's a result of the increased divorce rates increase internal participation in the workforce, which you just said, my time before. childcare options outside the home were widely available. Although I do remember going to some weird ass childcare when I was younger. I'm pretty sure we were abused in some way.

Alison Cebulla 5:03
Yeah, the number of my friends who are molested by babysitters is astronomical. Yeah,

Anne Sherry 5:08
sure. My older brother was like they might have dosed him or something. Because I mean, it was just seven days. Oh, man. Yeah, it was broken. Yeah. So

Alison Cebulla 5:19
little babies that are so serious. Yeah. Well, they were, they were 70

Anne Sherry 5:24
I mean, these these are like, I remember them like all their friends would come over. It was you know, it was night, the Vietnam War was just was still happening. When I was had my babysitter's like, right ended in 75. It's just I just kind of putting things together. Like it feels like that's so far away, but as a kid, right was like very fresh in the American experience.

Alison Cebulla 5:50
So and and I both work in the trauma space. And as a therapist, and I work in trauma prevention and education from a public health standpoint. So we work in community change. And my favorite book on trauma is called trauma and recovery by Judith Herman. And she talks about the fact that likes sort of family family violence, which is what we're talking about, when we're talking about trauma, we're talking about, you know, things that you experience that are that stay with you like, you know, violent episodes. So when you're looking at violence against women and children, which is still super prevalent, it's it's inextricably linked with it with the type of culture that we have that, you know, goes to war or, you know, sort of loves to be at war, and spends all of our money on the military, like, the two go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. It's like, if we're out there perpetrating violence on the world, that is going to come back home into our homes. So you know, you kind of bring up the Vietnam War as like an aside like, Wow, can you believe that was going on? But it's like, It matters. It matters in the context of of, you know, what kind of childhood we had,

Anne Sherry 7:03
right? Yeah. Yeah, a lot of shit was converging like rivers like so. Definitely, turbulent lot of I think amazing stuff must have come out of that. Anytime you're just tilling up. Maybe layers of soil of what looks like stability or whatever. Obviously, in many ways, the for many people in the US. It was never there was no stability to Leave It to Beaver. I mean, that's the shit. We're watching on TV. As we're like, you know, because the TV channels you didn't have much so you were like, so your, your Benjen like Leave It to Beaver and Andy fucking Griffith and like all this like parenting galore. And you're like, you're looking around like, well, I guess I'll make another fucking pitcher of Kool Aid with three cups of sugar in it. Whatever, you know, yeah,

Alison Cebulla 7:55
you did this. You did this quiz on your Facebook asking what their favorite latchkey

Anne Sherry 8:04
rats are gonna make we're gonna make a cookbook. We might start a YouTube channel and actually make some of these.

Alison Cebulla 8:12
So mine mine was graham crackers with butter. Yeah, I'm crackers with but I think you got

Anne Sherry 8:18
a couple of votes on that. Yeah, staple was well to the bread balls. Like an entire you would play all the crest off. It was some being white bread that yeah, she asked stuff. And you could get a roll up bread balls with dirty hands right down to like, maybe a half inch ball. And you could eat an entire loaf of bread like that. Or we would do Cinnamon Toast which was again white bread. Right? And then shipped on a butter how long it'll live. I don't know. I mean, that's why I think I think there's there's some like sugar resilience. Like Vince Vaughn did a really cool thing on sugar like kids today and Halloween where they're there. They don't get enough sugar. So on Halloween, they fucking lose their minds. And like for those of us that like grew up on sugar. It's just this tiny little bump Halloween is this little little extra bump. You know? No big deal. You're pretty much the same. Yeah, but that's cinnamon. I still my mouth is watering right now thinking about white bread, trying to like spread hard butter on there and tearing the bread you know, so then there's these holes in it. Piles of sugar cinnamon, put that in a toaster oven. The butters dripping through the bread that has holes in it setting the toaster on fire. Not to worry, no one's coming. There's no fire alarm so there's no warrant. You know, you just kind of move through the smoke and just have a little bit of charge but that cannot imagine that crystalline sugar

Alison Cebulla 9:59
Oh no. I I actually can Yeah, it's not so

Anne Sherry 10:03
familiar. Yeah, yeah. So we'll make that on our show. I'm gonna get me a 1970s toaster to like, set it on fire. Yeah,

Alison Cebulla 10:13
this is reminding me of that that great podcast which is definitely inspiration to me as we do ours stays with the stay sexy and don't get murdered my favorite murder. So when they wrote their book, which is called stay sexy and don't get murdered, the definitive How To Guide. I'm reading like a little description on line, which is part part duel memoir, part advice book. Stay sexy and don't get murdered as a tender guide for all the weirdos, latchkey kids and hot messes. And you guys, Karen, Karen, Georgia are you know, Karen is Gen X and she does this full bit about coming home and the weird foods they would make the fights she would get in with her older sister. Oh, just utter boredom. I mean, and yes is what that's again, that's what they say here. Listen

Anne Sherry 11:16
to this. Okay. The effects of being a latchkey kid child differ with age, loneliness, boredom, and fear the most common for those younger than 10 years of age. In the early teens, there's a greater susceptibility to peer pressure potentially resulting in behaviors such as alcohol, drug, promiscuity and smoking, check, check, check, check, check. The behaviors might stem from an whatever blah, blah, blah. However, some children experience other effects such as an early development of self reliance big fucking check their adaptation to difficult situations jack and a desire to contribute to a visible need in the household. Fuck. Yeah. So those are the central themes of my therapy, those parts continue my therapy personally, and I see it, you know, people that I see it's really it's interesting because I will as a therapist, I can get those parts to step back but I often when people are like really fighting for connection with their family, like, like, God, I really, you know, care about what my mom thinks and all this stuff. I have latch key parts that I really have to say get out of the therapy space. This is normal because I'm like, Why? Why? Why just shooting at you.

Alison Cebulla 12:32
You're good, you are good.

Anne Sherry 12:34
Not fight for love. It's not worth it is what they're chattering. And I'm like, Whoa, no, this is good. Okay, yeah, but you might want to see a therapist because I'm not sure I know how to help you. Because it sounds like you're good. No, no. No connection with your parents. It's fine. I don't know if it'll heal either. I mean, I'm starting at 53 I'm starting to embrace I think the gifts of the latchkey child and just

Alison Cebulla 13:08
thought that that makes me want to cry so I know there's something there. Oh, no.

Anne Sherry 13:15
It's time for me to really turn off the drug use I was the good kid. My older brother got to be the drug addict. I was now I'm ready to party. Party now. Yeah, at 53 with a nine year old come well, yes. Yeah,

Alison Cebulla 13:29
yeah, it's good times. I regret nothing. Nothing.

Anne Sherry 13:36
I know you're my go to I'm like Alison.

Alison Cebulla 13:38
Yeah, yeah, I was like oh wow, how many illegal drugs are there Can I try? Not at all?

Anne Sherry 13:44
I was said after school special watching the kids on ANGEL just jump off roofs, you know, that was that that we need to do a whole I mean, you know, not really but like, that's a bunch of shit. I sent you that thing from the article where the way drugs have been put forth is a whole that's a whole nother

Alison Cebulla 14:04
war on shaming and racism. Yeah, well, let's do a whole episode on the war on drugs for shadows. But, um, but so I want I wanted to share a little bit of my life how I relate to latchkey, then, we'll talk about the urchins and friends. So for me, my mom pretty much always worked. So like, like, was starting in date eyes, went to daycare starting at six months old. And then there were a few years where she was at home because my brother was born. But then like, my parents got divorced. My mom started her own business. So I was always in like, after school programs like starting at a young age. And like my mom was starting her own business. So you know, there would be some times when it would be like 6pm six so far. I have like daycare was closing and they call my mom and be like, Are you like, are you going to come get your kids? Like, did you remember the piano?

Anne Sherry 15:09
Oh, I can't tell you the number of times just kind of like pretending like you have business at the school, you know, like so when people drive by like, no, no, no, I'm gonna just rake the grass or move these pine cones around, you know? It's fine.

Alison Cebulla 15:25
But then so this, I think, really effed me up. But when I was 11, they, they weren't just sure that I could be fine on my own. They were absolutely positively sure that I could take care of other kids as well. So starting at 11 I babysat I mean, I got paid every single day, a kindergarten girl every morning and every day after school. The whole year of sixth grade. Crazy. Yeah,

Anne Sherry 15:51
yeah, I did too. I know my mother would sign up to show houses. Yeah. People Catholic ladies, I think like six and seven children and I would watch those six or seven children while they flitted around town looking at fucking houses. That's

Alison Cebulla 16:07
really weird. Yeah,

Anne Sherry 16:08
I think. Yeah, I don't Yeah. Anyways, so they had a different latchkey experiences for children being raised by babysat by Alaska. Yeah.

Alison Cebulla 16:17
So then it's like, well, what about like, when did I get to be a kid? And I look back at it. I feel really sad about it, you know, because I think I was always a miniature adult. And when I look at old photos of myself from childhood, I have like, adult like expressions on my face. Like I'm very serious. I'm kind of sad looking. Yeah. I'm tense. So then even like, in my

Anne Sherry 16:39
the tinge of rage, yeah. Oh. Oh,

Alison Cebulla 16:43
murders later. Absolutely. Murderous. Absolutely, yeah. And so, um, like, my dad bought me a house when I was 20 years old, which I still think is like, I was too young. It was like, way more responsibility than I knew how to handle it's very stressful. Like, I can remember sitting down with that therapist that you recommended to me, and just crying and being like, I don't know what's wrong with me. And she was like, trying to convince me that like, this, none of this had needed to be my responsibility. And I just, I would just cry and cry and cry. And I didn't have any perspective because I was 20 You know, but it was like, So then in my 20s I really think that I was acting out and being a kid because that in my 20s were the years where I just went to every rave you know, took all the party drugs like just went just and with raves you get to dress up like you're like a cartoon character. It's all bright neon colors. It's all like fluffy things. I was taking bras and like hot gluing rhinestones to them like as if I was like in first grade or something, you know, Luca

Anne Sherry 17:54
that's so awesome. Yeah, I went that other route I got married to somebody I didn't want to be married to and 24 like what's that about? Like Tom I don't fucking now like you didn't even know well the that's why you came to live with me. See what he went away people are like Aren't you sad that he's like going to impact England?

Alison Cebulla 18:15
seem sad. No, no, no, I

Anne Sherry 18:17
wasn't Yeah, yeah. Not his fault is whatever I don't want to there's no bashing it all but it's like that's that I didn't know that. I could say no, I didn't know I mean, it was just like oh a difficult situation. I'll just put a partition here and not deal with that. But as then I'll just go have my life

Alison Cebulla 18:35
but it just comes back to when you're a latchkey kid and this kind of brings me to why why are we added the and friends because there's plenty of people who don't identify as a latchkey kid didn't have a key around their neck Did you know but experienced emotional neglect at home so I want you know, this podcast is for all of us. It's for all the all the whole spectrum of of potential emotional neglect whether you had a key or not. But when your parents don't acknowledge your humaneness or your existence or your you know, like your feelings, your emotional needs or who you are or like nurture who you are, and then then you do shit. Like you know, just like you don't know what you want or need. You're like, Okay, now just get married. I've seen other people do it. You don't you don't you don't even know that you could have these are wants,

Anne Sherry 19:24
right? Exactly. There's no needs or wants driving the decisions like or to talk to somebody or any Yeah, none of that. But think about that all the latchkey generation that then started I mean they talk about that bounce to like helicopter parenting, right? Which is also a form of neglect. Because you're still not seeing you're like putting on two kids. This is what you're supposed to do. This is what I want you to do. This makes you successful. I'm gonna give you everything I didn't have, you know, it's just a polarization to the other way. So, yeah, it sounds like we're bashing it It's really hard to quote unquote get it, right. I mean, oh, I

Alison Cebulla 20:03
know, I don't want to bash. Anyone I know we're not bashing my own parents. And I don't know, like, in my head, I'm imagining my mom listening to this episode and texting me and going. That's not true. I didn't do that.

Anne Sherry 20:22
Yeah, I mean, in memory has some subjectiveness. And I, again, I think we referenced this throughout episodes, or we will, but we are in a I mean, the United States has a latch key problem, like we are not, we're not invested in

Alison Cebulla 20:40
Oh, no, and

Anne Sherry 20:42
actually be with each other here at some unity.

Alison Cebulla 20:45
Yes, parents are part of a whole ecology that is, you know, like, children are embedded within a household which is embedded within a community, which is vetted within a nation and a society and a set of cultural beliefs and policies, and all of these things like, you know, it's not just one and that's why like, I hate so much of like, the parenting advice is so shaming. It's so it's like, people don't, there's like not a whole lot that that most people can change, especially if you're a person of color or low income and our country, your options are even less in terms of the family planning resources that you get to have the childcare resources, the types of schools you can send your kids to. So definitely want to acknowledge privilege there. But people often don't think about the ways that policy impact impacts families. And so we don't offer you know, required paid parental leave for parents. I'd love to see it. And I hate that it's we always tend to focus on maternity leave, but it we need to have equal paternal leave if we want anything to be equal.

Anne Sherry 21:53
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I had some thought. Yeah, I was reading anyways, just sort of reading about like staffing shortages right now to I have a lot of interest in like, I don't know if that's happening in California, or if it's over, like, you know, places closing, but I was reading like, some of it is there is an adequate childcare for people to come back to work. And if there Yeah,

Alison Cebulla 22:20
exactly. Yeah. Because with COVID It's like, since it's not really safe for all kids to be a daycare, or like as many kids as well. Yeah, it's a huge problem. Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you want to share a little bit about the term ergens?

Anne Sherry 22:38
Oh, yeah. Um, and it this is also gonna sound a little bashing of buy. I don't know. I mean, my mom, like we just, my parents grew up in the born in 1938, that, you know, my mother was one of 10 children, and my dad's one of seven rural farming. Not a ton of money. You know, the parent, I think their experience was, I mean, Depression era, even though they weren't born into depression, but their families lived through it. So anyways, I just, we just didn't, she would look at us, because we have mismatched clothes, dirty a lot. And I'll have to say, like some of that region that we just talked about, try to get me to take about, I mean, I have a kid now who, like is parented? I think, I'm pretty sure you're trying to make it. Yeah. But I mean, you can't get him to put her where where he wants, you know, the bathing comes and goes, Yeah, you know, whatever. So, but she would look at us or me in particular, and be like, Oh, you look like an Archon. And I would be you know, I don't know if I was like, I was into Pippi Longstocking, too at that time. So I think it might have been a little bit of pride with that. But also looking back on it, I'm like, Dude, you're the one in charge, you know? Oh, I look like an urgent, like, you know, so I just always,

Alison Cebulla 24:06
yeah, Alice Miller talks about that. And her I mean, her books. Her works were like seminal 1981, I think is when the drama of the gifted child was published. Yeah. And she talks about that, that the parents like continually belittling their children and the damage that that causes over time, right. So here, your parents, it's like you're the parent and they're telling you, Oh, you look like a little street urchin or my what my, the adults in my old childhood would call me a ragamuffin.

Anne Sherry 24:33
Yes, I was that too. Yeah. Okay, latchkey urchin Raghava. Yes. Okay. But

Alison Cebulla 24:41
so these

Anne Sherry 24:43
are right, the right right. I said, let us know what you were called.

Alison Cebulla 24:46
Yeah, let us know your childhood nickname. Yeah. So a definition of street urchin a child who spends most of his time in the streets is this and there's like little that it's like Oliver, Oliver and friends yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, in the streets, especially in slum areas, um, the homeless girl who roams the streets. I kind of was.

Anne Sherry 25:16
I mean, literally, there are stories of me. So I don't know when my psyche became cognizant that there, you know, I was that I was born in the 70s. Were going to be what they were. But their stories that three I would take off, I was gone. Two and a half, three, just walk out the door, and they The Paperboy would bring me back on the front of his bike. And again, I'm like, how long was I gone? Busy was the street we lived on, you know? Yeah. Notice I wasn't around either. I don't know. You know, I mean, I we can't i can't i having now have a child. I'm like, if a two year old, you know people are, there's double locks and smart key shit and cameras and children are not going anywhere. A lot of a lot of kids are not being out of anybody sight or whatever. So it's annoying. Like we joined a pool. The one thing that I like going to the pool was a huge experience just being dropped off at like eight and you would spend all day.

Alison Cebulla 26:25
My mom's childhood that's my childhood. She said it was every day awesome.

Anne Sherry 26:30
It actually was except that I never had enough food, I think. Yeah, yeah, so I'm bumming rides with like 16 year olds, like, telling them you know, take me to fucking Burger King and get me some food. So I'm like eight, in a in a t top Firebird. Listen to bad company on an eight track with my arm out the window. Just thank you. Can I have the ship? And thank God, none of these guys at the pool. They were all cool, I think But not everyone's area. Not everyone's a creep. Yeah. No, I can remember and now I'm like, I was thinking about timing. And I was like, that they could have been in Vietnam. You know, I just it's sometimes like, getting me on how close like what was the psyche of the teenagers of that time? You know, I can remember a suicide or two in the neighborhood when I was like, four ish, but But yeah, there are benefits. So the resilient that

Alison Cebulla 27:32
so why don't you talk about the psyche of your childhood, right? And try to understand that so for me watching Stranger Things. I was like, I was like, okay, because this is my childhood. I was like, I remember those brown couches. You know, those guys. And I'm like, the scary part about that series isn't the monsters. It's the 80s it's the 80s that are so terrifying. They're so close. That fucking green shag carpet would have been 12 1314 a wall? Yeah, yeah, the wallpaper the just like the dark, terrible earth tones and

Anne Sherry 28:09
wood paneling.

Alison Cebulla 28:11
Terrifying. This is the perfect backdrop of a horror film. Perfect.

Anne Sherry 28:15
Is it totally. So those are chins wandering, you know, we were gaggles of kids. So to you know, the neighborhood. I don't know we back in the woods, like,

Alison Cebulla 28:27
Oh, I was just, I was just telling my friends about or my I was just telling my parents. I was like, Yeah, whenever I grew up in a in a Latinx community, so all my classmates were Latinx heritage, and I would I would go hang out with my friends. And they would all their favorite game to play was to pretend like we were in a gang. That was their favorite game. And they'd be like, Come on, let's go tagging. And they'd like bring a Sharpie and we'd go to the park and they would write Oceana 13. All over which is like, oh, or like a game over like the play equipment with a Sharpie.

Anne Sherry 29:03
Wow. Didn't do that in South Carolina. It was pretty. I don't know straight up. Still segregated at that time for sure. Parts, you know? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, not officially but structurally it was so so yeah, that's our chance just

Alison Cebulla 29:26
roaming around Romag chill dirty.

Anne Sherry 29:28
Yeah, I was. I had August like Kid laughing because I would I would be friend. Whoever had the best food not if I like do the food like at your house? Like I can remember to hearing Sarah it's whispering like don't break don't let an come into the house. I would fucking eat everything. I was like, it's fine. I'm sure we can dish it out. And these kids that had like control or you know, like paid attention to rules or something. But yeah, it wasn't. It was really Be strategic, like, who had good food. That's how that's how I was. And I still think I'm a little manipulate I don't know there's something about that, like, you know, August will be like, I'm like, What's it what are their snacks? Like when I pick him up? I'm like, what kind of snacks today? Yeah, he's like shit. They're all like healthy, you know? Oh really no Pop Tarts, nothing like that with a lot of houses he goes to so

Alison Cebulla 30:27
I was just I was like, gosh, I want to I want people to be able to email us. Yeah, so I'm like I'm like

Anne Sherry 30:35
oh put that on the intro.

Alison Cebulla 30:36
Well I need like a week. I like what emails are available here. How about like

Anne Sherry 30:41
we're gonna do a Gmail let's go or gmail account right

Alison Cebulla 30:45
Gmail? Yeah let's try this

Anne Sherry 30:49
Do you know how you can set it up quicker?

Alison Cebulla 30:51
Let me see it's uh yeah, that's available so we'll do latchkey urchins@gmail.com It's available. Okay. latchkey urgent because Tom, your husband said he's he feels like a panda. Right,

Anne Sherry 31:07
didn't he? Yeah, he has a story that pandas just kind of like move in their own circle. They're not really a family. Animals are families do they? I mean,

Alison Cebulla 31:17
yeah, so you we have an interview with Tom coming up on the podcast in a few episodes, and he explained Yeah, and but so I want to know like what, you know, are you an urchin? Are you a panda? I'm gonna have to think about what mine yeah, I'm gonna think about what mine is.

Anne Sherry 31:34
Are you the friend of a latchkey kid? Did you take a latchkey kid into your house after school? Did you have a parent that felt sorry for the order? Or Were your parents warning you about us? The neighborhoods looking for snacks.

Alison Cebulla 31:50
Oh my gosh.

Anne Sherry 31:51
breaking rules. Yeah, breaking thermometers. We did that. Oh, the monitor play we were playing with

Alison Cebulla 31:57
mercury the ultimate dash key story to me Yeah,

Anne Sherry 32:02
who didn't that shit was awesome

Alison Cebulla 32:07
so that's the story behind our name. And so you know we it's for latchkey kids, it's for street urchins and it's for for all all our friends and wherever you fall the spectrum for pandas. Yes, stray cat beware

Anne Sherry 32:20
it is hard for latchkey people and merchants to really have to be really deep friends there's there's layers you're not gonna get to

Alison Cebulla 32:32
are there even we don't i don't know you peel the onion there's nothing in there.

Anne Sherry 32:38
Exactly. I mean there's nothing you may think your friends but we have all kinds of strategies to look like we're super close. But we don't really go that deep like we built protection early so fun. But if we tend to disappear and let you down it's not personal. It's just just our survival. So sorry I'll just not sorry yeah, it's

Alison Cebulla 33:06
not personal Well, yeah and on that Yeah. All right, my God

because you know damn well. Thanks for listening to latch key urchins and friends podcast by Alison Cebulla and Anne sherry. Music is by Proxima parada visit latchkey urchins.com For show notes on this episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai